Hi Cherilyn,
Very tardily, I'd like to thank you for your response to my
questions re our club signing up with bivio. I'm sorry it
took me so long to do so, but you'll be happy to know that
we did register with bivio a few days ago. We're now in the
process of transferring data, and I am certainly looking
forward to using bivio's tax printer for the federal return.

The petty cash is not a problem since we never used NCA's
petty cash account; we just put money in the deductible
account (we made sure to only have tax deductible expenses),
and I'll recommend we quit using that as well. I'm
especially interested in your automatic member payment
process with Schwab. Perhaps we can do the same with TD
Ameritrade.

Again many thanks for your comments and a very Happy New
Year to you and your club.

Andy Hinds
Grey Rock Cache Investment Club
Fort Collins, Colorado

Cherilyn J. Peay wrote:
> Hi Andrew.
> Ditto to all.
> With this addition.
> I've converted two clubs without incident.
> An old club had a petty cash account which we kept on Bivio for
> two years but are closing this year. You can't set up a Petty Cash
> account in Bivio if it didn't exist in your IClub files. If if does exist
> it will be converted. There is no reason to keep it. Close it
> out.
> One club has auto member deposits transferred from their personal
> accounts to Schwab in equal amounts so each month I have to assign
> them. (The software can't differentiate the deposits and match them to
> members.) The way around this is to have each person transfer  a
> different amount of cents. For me it's easy enough to edit the
> transactions. Takes about 1 minute, literally.
> The tax printer is a dream. Really easy and efficient.
> It has taken a little while for the members to get accustomed to Bivio
> and to go on line to Bivio for minutes etc. We have made using Bivio part
> of our education program which has helped. We let each member print their
> own reports rather than bringing them to meetings. The treasurer notifies
> everyone via email that all data is updated and that the reports are
> ready to be printed. By having the agenda and minutes AND stock studies
> in the file area members have been "encouraged" (forced ;-) )
> to use Bivio to stay current with club business.
> The assistance available is fabulous.
> Try it  and then decide.
>
> I would also appreciate any
> other comments or suggestions
> you may have on transitioning to bivio as well as how
> successful your club’s operations have been under bivio.
> To anyone who’d like to respond, many thanks.
> Andrew Hinds
> Treasurer
> Grey Rock Cache Investment Club
> Fort Collins, Colorado
>
> Cherilyn J. Peay
> PO Box 1408
> Bernalillo, NM  87004-1408
> (505) 867-4379
> (505) 867-4224 fax

Hi Bea,
Many thanks (very tardily) for your response to my questions
re our club signing up with bivio. I've been slow to reply,
but you'll be happy to know that we did register with bivio
a few days ago. We're now in the process of transferring
data and should have everything synced by our first meeting
of the new year/decade. I am certainly looking forward to
having the federal tax return prepared through bivio.

Again many thanks for your comments and a very Happy New
Year to you and your club.

Andy Hinds
Grey Rock Cache Investment Club
Fort Collins, Colorado

Bea Langley wrote:
> I cannot say enough good remarks about BIVIO. When you have a problem they
> reply immediately and always provide you with information you need or offer
> specific instructions as to how to correct problems.
>
> Bea Langley
> Lady Dabbler Investment Club

Hi John,
Sorry I've been so slow, but many, many thanks for your
detailed reply to my many questions about our club using
bivio's services. We have since signed up with bivio. A week
ago I transferred Club Accounting YTD data and everything
worked slick as a whistle. Next week we'll sync the broker
account--and I'll have more time for all the other things in
my life..

I'm happy to hear that so many clubs credit payments when
received, instead of trying to match them to a particular
month, a policy I'll certainly emulate. We'll continue the
NAIC club membership, but I was especially interested in
your club's payment of NAIC's member dues and the good
reasoning behind it. Maybe I'll try to convince our club to
do likewise.

Meantime many thanks again and a very properous New Year to
you and your club.

Andy Hinds, Treasurer
Grey Rock Cache Investment Club
Fort Collins, Colorado

John W Ranby wrote:
> Andrew W. Hinds wrote:
> 1. (a) Are members’ payments automatically sent to and
> accepted by your broker, or (b) do you collect and remit
> payments? We have always accumulated members’ payments in a
> local bank account then written a check for the aggregate
> amount to the broker once a month. We’d like an automatic
> member-to-broker account system, but wonder if brokers like
> ours (TD Ameritrade) would accept 14 separate payments to
> the account every month.
>
>
> We use Schwab, which works with the bivio autosync. I
> collect the checks at the meeting and mail them in a
> Schwab-postage paid envelope. When Schwab processes the
> checks, the “penny system” assigns them in bivio. I could
> have the members mail their checks to Schwab directly, but
> it hasn’t been necessary. We don’t need a bank account as I
> can write a check on our Schwab account.
>
>
> 2. How do you handle advance payments? For example, a
> partner may pay 1,2,3 months in advance if s/he will miss
> several meetings. In the past our procedure (adhering, in
> Club Accounting 3, to the idea that we must keep all the
> accounts equal) has been to park advance payments in the
> suspense account, then move it to the member’s account on
> the date it’s due, but that’s extra work that I’d like to
> avoid—as well as the "all-members-must-be-equal" rule. (Of
> course, direct automatic payments to the broker account
> would eliminate the extra work AND this outdated “rule.”)
>
>
> I credit the payment in the month that it is received. For
> example, I paid four months ahead in September because of
> travel plans. The entire amount bought units at the
> September price. Another member had missed a meeting so paid
> two months in September, and his payment for both months
> also bought units at the September price. Our club has been
> in existence for 21 years with nine members, three are
> founding members and our most recent addition joined two
> years ago. No one has the same number of units, and everyone
> has one vote.
>
>
> 3. After joining bivio, did you continue your $40
> annual BetterInvesting (NAIC) club membership? Apparently
> clubs need NAIC membership in order to purchase fidelity
> bond insurance as well as software like Club Accounting and
> the annual Tax Printer. But joining bivio apparently
> eliminates the latter two, so we wonder if clubs have found
> it important to maintain the club membership and annually
> purchase the fidelity bond insurance.
>
>
> We continue our club membership in NAIC, but don’t purchase
> the fidelity bond. Our club pays the membership dues for
> each member as well. We do so because we want the club and
> members to remain affiliated with NAIC, read the magazine,
> and have the other benefits available. As treasurer, one
> little mentioned benefit that I use frequently is the
> discount at OfficeMax for photocopies.
>
>
> I would also appreciate any other comments or suggestions
> you may have on transitioning to bivio as well as how
> successful your club’s operations have been under bivio.
>
> I switched to bivio four years ago after five years of
> installing new versions, patches and tax reporting software
> that produced lots of bugs and would never consider going
> back to a PC-installed program. As far as my experience
> transitioning to bivio: data conversion took three days as I
> had to contact tech support for some help; becoming familiar
> with all the features in bivio took a couple of months, and
> deciding to use auto-sync took about six months. Since then,
> I only had a problem when I changed the password on our
> Schwab account and forgot to sync the change in bivio so the
> downloads stopped.
>
> I hope these experiences help you.
>
> Jack Ranby, Treasurer
> Grants Partners Investment Club

Many thanks, Robbin, for the comments about bivio's tax prep
service. So many clubs seem very happy with it so I'm
looking forward to also taking advantage of it. iClub tax
printer costs $89, whereas bivio's is included in the $99
p/year cost so we're saving money right there, not to
mention aggravation. I think we'll really enjoy being in the
bivio family.

Best wishes for the new year.

Andy Hinds, Treasurer
Grey Rock Cache Invest CLub

M R Atwell wrote:
> Hi Andrew~~~
> Others have given the same responses that I would give to your 3 questions,
> but I'd also comment that I've been very happy with the tax prep in Bivio.
> That aspect has been a life-saver for me.
>
> Best of luck to you & your club,
> Robbin Atwell
> Duke & Duke Investment Club
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com]On Behalf Of
> Andrew W. Hinds
> Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 06:52 PM
> To: club_cafe@bivio.com
> Subject: club_cafe: BetterInvesting to bivio questions
>
>
> I �m the treasurer of a 12-yr old investment club that has
> just started a 3-month trial run in bivio (which we expect
> we�ll join permanently). For treasurers who have used bivio
> for a while, I have three questions:
> 1. (a) Are members� payments automatically sent to and
> accepted by your broker, or (b) do you collect and remit
> payments? We have always accumulated members� payments in a
> local bank account then written a check for the aggregate
> amount to the broker once a month. We�d like an automatic
> member-to-broker account system, but wonder if brokers like
> ours (TD Ameritrade) would accept 14 separate payments to
> the account every month.
> 2. How do you handle advance payments? For example, a
> partner may pay 1,2,3 months in advance if s/he will miss
> several meetings. In the past our procedure (adhering, in
> Club Accounting 3, to the idea that we must keep all the
> accounts equal) has been to park advance payments in the
> suspense account, then move it to the member�s account on
> the date it�s due, but that�s extra work that I�d like to
> avoid�as well as the "all-members-must-be-equal" rule. (Of
> course, direct automatic payments to the broker account
> would eliminate the extra work AND this outdated �rule.�)
> 3. After joining bivio, did you continue your $40
> annual BetterInvesting (NAIC) club membership? Apparently
> clubs need NAIC membership in order to purchase fidelity
> bond insurance as well as software like Club Accounting and
> the annual Tax Printer. But joining bivio apparently
> eliminates the latter two, so we wonder if clubs have found
> it important to maintain the club membership and annually
> purchase the fidelity bond insurance.
>
> I would also appreciate any other comments or suggestions
> you may have on transitioning to bivio as well as how
> successful your club�s operations have been under bivio.
>
> To anyone who�d like to respond, many thanks.
>
> Andrew Hinds
> Treasurer
> Grey Rock Cache Investment Club
> Fort Collins, Colorado

Hi, Lynn,
I want to thank you very much for your detailed responses to
my questions about joining bivio. I'm sorry it's taken a
month for me to reply, but it's not from lack of
appreciation for your very helpful comments. I keep telling
our members that equality doesn't apply here, so I'm glad to
hear so many other clubs say the same thing. And unless
things go very differently, I confident we'll junk the petty
cash/deductible account as part of the bivio conversion.

In the meantime, many thanks again and best wishes to you
and your club for the new year.

Andy Hinds, Treasurer
Grey Rock Cache Investment Club


Lynn Ostrem wrote:
> Welcome Andrew,
> �
> 1) We still do it the old fashion way.� We collect the checks, deposit them at the bank down the street, but when we need to fund our broker cash account, we simply�do a quick ACH (electronic) transfer.� Our broker� has a little screen and "send" button just for that.
>
> �
> 2) Sorry, but in our meetings, someone missing 3 meetings would be automatically withdrawn by way of our partnership agreement!� We like butts in the seats (read: active and participating members).� But when one of our members knows they will be on vacation or otherwise absent at the next meeting, they usually give us a double check.� We just deposit it and give them the credits at that time.� As treasurer, I'm not going to haggle over a few unit points.� Life is too short.
>
> �
> And about that rule of all members being equal...pooh!� The need for that kind of simplicity went away with the advent of the modern computer.� It's so easy for bivio to calculate a members'� value based on units.� In 16 years of clubbing, I've yet to see any situation where keeping everyone equal benefited a club.� Let members pay when and what they want, as long as it's timely.�
>
> �
> And stay away from suspense and petty cash accounts, too.� They are not necessary.� Inflows (be it payments, dividends or interest) are either used for taxable expenses, non-taxable expenses, or to purchase assets for the club. Simply code them accordingly and bivio will separate them properly at the end of the year.
>
> �
> 3.� Yes, we did keep our membership with BI...for about 3 years.�� And the bond had nothing to do with it.� They quadrulpled the price without any corresponding benefit, at the time, and we didn't feel it was worth keeping.� Here we are about 5 years later, and no worse for wear.� In other words, it hasn't hindered our club business.
>
> �
> Not a lot of clubs worry about the bond.� I would imagine it would become more important as the value of your club grows.� But there are other ways to deal with that issue, like double signatures on checks; requesting the broker only release funds with a letter signed by two officers; not letting the value of your club exceed a certain dollar amount (distributing the excess) etc.�You might be able to get it cheaper by having the current treasurer get a bond through their homeowner's insurer, at the club's expense. I checked on that once with American Family.� My agent told me she could add a rider for free.
>
> �
> Maybe we're more trusting than other folks,�but I've never worried about a�bond, and I've never heard of any BI or other club ever having needed it.
> �
> As to your request for comments, our club has been with bivio since 2001 and we are thrilled with their services, their prompt technical support, and their professionalism.� You will also find this message board is well monitored, so even over the weekend, if you have a problem, you need only reach out.
>
> �
> Take full advantage of this 90-day period to get your books completely switched over and verified so that you can let go of the other accounting program without losing sleep over it.� Most of the time it's a snap. But even if you have a glitch, it's nothing bivio support can't handle quickly.
>
> �
> Good luck to you.
> �
> Lynn Ostrem
> garbagecop@gmail.com
> Crow River Investment Club
> www.bivio.com/crowriver

Ira,
Despite my tardiness, I want you to know how much I
appreciate all the information, comments, suggestions you've
made in your replies to my several emails. Having carefully
read your conclusions, I intend to take up these issues at
our January meeting and hope to make the necessary changes
thereafter.

For now, many thanks again and best wishes for the new year.

Andy Hinds, Treasurer
Grey Rock Cache Invest Club



iras1 wrote:
> In a message dated 12/06/09 18:52:33 Eastern Standard Time, hautil1920@bivio.com writes:
>
>
>
> .aolmailheader {font-size:8pt; color:black; font-family:Arial}
> a.aolmailheader:link {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal}
> a.aolmailheader:visited {color:magenta; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal}
> a.aolmailheader:active {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal}
> a.aolmailheader:hover {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal}
>
> I ‘m the treasurer of a 12-yr old investment club that has
> just started a 3-month trial run in bivio (which we expect
> we’ll join permanently).  For treasurers who have used bivio
> for a while, I have three questions:
> 1.      (a) Are members’ payments automatically sent to and
> accepted by your broker, or (b) do you collect and remit
> payments? We have always accumulated members’ payments in a
> local bank account then written a check for the aggregate
> amount to the broker once a month. We’d like an automatic
> member-to-broker account system, but wonder if brokers like
> ours (TD Ameritrade) would accept 14 separate payments to
> the account every month.
> We send members's checks to TDAmeritrade directly. The checks are made out to TD Ameritrade with the club's brokerage account number in the memo field. We've never had a problem.
>
> 2.       How do you handle advance payments? For example, a
> partner may pay 1,2,3 months in advance if s/he will miss
> several meetings. In the past our procedure (adhering, in
> Club Accounting 3, to the idea that we must keep all the
> accounts equal) has been to park advance payments in the
> suspense account, then move it to the member’s account on
> the date it’s due, but that’s extra work that I’d like to
> avoid—as well as the "all-members-must-be-equal" rule. (Of
> course, direct automatic payments to the broker account
> would eliminate the extra work AND this outdated “rule.��)
> I don't know where you found a "keep things equal" rule as no such thing ever existed. In fact, just the opposite. Members should be credited with the full amount of their payment when they make it. There's no need to run things through the suspense account. There are many additional reasons why you don't want to maintain equal shares. Trying to do so creates problems if someone can't make a payment. You can't allow a partial withdrawal. You can't take in a new member unless that member contributes enough to purchase the number of units held by the other members. The beauty of the investment club accounting software (any of the programs) is that it takes care of the calculations for unequal members for you.
>
> 3.      After joining bivio, did you continue your $40
> annual BetterInvesting (NAIC) club membership? Apparently
> clubs need NAIC membership in order to purchase fidelity
> bond insurance as well as software like Club Accounting and
> the annual Tax Printer.  But joining bivio apparently
> eliminates the latter two, so we wonder if clubs have found
> it important to maintain the club membership and annually
> purchase the fidelity bond insurance.
> The BetterInvesting club membership was never a requirement for purchasing any of the investment club accounting software, although there were often discounts available to BI clubs. You will need to maintain BI membership if you want to purchase their fidelity bond. You can probably find other sources of fidelity bonds, but I have no idea if they are cost competitive.
>
> I would also appreciate any other comments or suggestions
> you may have on transitioning to bivio as well as how
> successful your club’s operations have been under bivio.
> I use both bivio and the ICLUBcentral accounting products for various clubs. They both work well. Use your trial period to determine which program best suits your club.
>  
>
> Ira Smilovitz
> Join me at InvestEd 2010
> Investor Education at Its BestTM
> Baltimore, MD August 6 - 8, 2010
> http://www.investor-education2010.org/

Andrew W. Hinds writes:
> Many thanks, Robbin, for the comments about bivio's tax prep
> service. So many clubs seem very happy with it so I'm
> looking forward to also taking advantage of it. iClub tax
> printer costs $89, whereas bivio's is included in the $99
> p/year cost so we're saving money right there, not to
> mention aggravation. I think we'll really enjoy being in the
> bivio family.

Andy, we are excited to have you on board.

You are almost correct about the pricing. Iclub charges separately
for state and federal taxes so it's $189.98 (only before 12/31/2009)
for taxes in addition to the $69.99 yearly subscription.

That's $259.97 per year for Iclub while bivio is only $99.

I must say that that Iclub's pricing flies in the face of the
efficient market hypothesis. You'd think that investment clubs would
want to save $160.97 per year by using bivio. That's more than the
average investment club spends on brokerage commissions!

Of course, there are many other reasons to switch to bivio, including
our automated brokerage import feature, our unique performance
analysis tools, and our fantastic customer support.

Thanks for joining the bivio family. We are looking forward to
serving you. Your club is going to save a lot of money, and you'll
have more free time being a bivio treasurer.

Cheers,
Rob