Making a member inactive
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Making a member inactive We have a member who wants to remain a member without withdrawing any money but also without making monthly contributions. Our club seems willing to do this but is it possible within the bounds of the bivio accounting. If we just leave her as an active member not making monthly contributions then she will be getting benefits of our dividends earned. Is there any way to leave her as a member with her contributions just sitting there but not giving her any share of dividends earned?? Sherrill: Before I provide an answer to your specific question, I feel obligated to expand the discussion about the consequences of what you are proposing. First, there is a difference between the ability to make some accounting entry to achieve a result and the legal and business consequences of making that accounting entry. Operating an investment club is regulated by the laws relating to partnerships of the state where the partnership is created and by federal laws dealing with securities. While there may be times where state law allows "limited partners" , there is not a category of "inactive" partner. Even more restrictive are the laws and regulations of the US Securities and Exchange Commission which prohibit "inactive" or "silent" partners in investment clubs. Second, I would then re-phrase your question to be "can we have an active partner, who leaves his/her current contributions plus accrued earnings/losses in the partnership, but "freezes" the market value of that partner's interest in the partnership. Such an arrangement would result in the partner not participating in the rise or fall in the value of that partner's current interest in the partnership's assets. It also means the other partners would profit from any increase in value of the "frozen" partner's interest; but also have to cover any loss that occurs to the "frozen" partner's interest. Are you sure the person proposing to become a "frozen partner" and the other partner's fully realize the risk/reward that they would be assuming? Third: As far as the pure accounting for such an arrangement, I believe that nothing would have to be done until the frozen member either withdrew or wanted to become "unfrozen," or another member withdrew (hereinafter, "triggering event"). While the value of the "frozen partner's" interest in the partnership as reflected on the Members Status would change, everyone would know that the value has been frozen and to ignore that value on the report. This approach would eliminate you having to make adjusting entries every month. When a "triggering event" occurs; at that time, you would have to determine the difference between the current market value of the frozen partner's holdings in the partnership compared with the his/her value on the date of the freeze. If the new value is higher, then an adjusting entry would have to be made that reduces the market value of his/her holdings and increases the value of the remaining partners. If the new value is lower, then an adjusting entry would have to be made that increases the market value of his/her holdings and reduces the value of all the other members. The adjustments could be accomplished using a series of entries using the "member fee" and an suspense account so that the cash balances at the bank/brokerage account stays the same. (The accounting experts on this site may have an easier way to achieve this result.) Fourth: Final thought: You do not explain why the person wants to do this. If it is that they do not want to (or temporarily cannot) make additional cash contributions, then simply allowing them stop making payments, but still participating the gains/losses of their current holdings would be best. They would still participate in the management of the portfolio and in the risk/reward attributable to their current holdings. If they are not prepared to accept the risk/reward of their current holdings going up or down, then it may be best for them to withdraw entirely and seek to rejoin the partnership at a later date when they are again willing to accept the risk/reward of investing. I for one would not be willing to accept the risk of insuring the value of another partner's interest in the portfolio. I am sure others will have additional thoughts to add that I have not covered. Jack Ranby Grants Partners Investment Club Sherrill Williams wrote: > We have a member who wants to remain a member without > withdrawing any money but also without making monthly > contributions. Our club seems willing to do this but is it > possible within the bounds of the bivio accounting. If we > just leave her as an active member not making monthly > contributions then she will be getting benefits of our > dividends earned. Is there any way to leave her as a member > with her contributions just sitting there but not giving her > any share of dividends earned?? Sherrill, Here's my thinking. If the member needs a temporary retrieve why not grant a leave of absence for a give period of time (granted that this is in your bylaws)? Their value will still fluctuate with the value of the club as always. Otherwise the member not wanting to participate should withdraw. Why have a member of the club who is not active? If the member needs a money manager there are plenty out there. And lastly as you can see by Jack's response it can get extremely messy. I think you're headed for trouble. Cherilyn Peay New Mexico At 03:21 PM 9/13/2009, you wrote: Sherrill:Cherilyn J. Peay PO Box 1408 Bernalillo, NM 87004-1408 (505) 867-4379 (505) 867-4224 fax Sherrill,
First of all, if you do decide to let her stay on as a partner without
withdrawing any money, she is entitled to receive her share of dividends, gains
and losses, as well as share in any expenses. Her contributions have helped to
earn those dividends, etc, so she is entitled to her share, regardless of
whether or not she continues to contribute. Of course, her percentage of
earnings, etc. will go down in the future, since her share of ownership will be
decreasing.
Your club will have to decide if they want to let her continue on without
making more contributions. If they do, it is my opinion that the club will not
get into any trouble with the SEC as previously announced on this forum. This is
especially true, if you allow her the right to vote, even if she doesn't use
that option.
There is no problem with the IRS in having an 'inactive' member.
Nothing that I have said, here, should be construed as advocating that you
do follow the course of allowing her 'inactive' status. I have mentioned it,
only to let you know what your options are.
Rip West
Saint Paul, MN I did some research lately on the SEC inactive issue, and I agree with Rip. An article called "Investment Clubs and the SEC" at www.sec.gov implies that a club must file as a security if members expect to make a profit from the entrepreneurial and managerial efforts of others. These members, like mutual fund owners, don't have the privilege of participating in the decisions of the portfolio. We, on the other hand, are exempt because we have the right to vote on decisions of the club, even if we choose not to. I am always amazed at all gyrations clubs attempt to put themselves through for a single member. It shouldn't be that way. Clubs are an education vehicle. Members' lives change. We need to keep the best interest of the club in mind and be willing to forego difficult legal or accounting issues, for the good of the club. -- Lynn Ostrem garbagecop@gmail.com Crow River Investment Club www.bivio.com/crowriver Join me at InvestEd 2010 August 6-8, Baltimore, MD www.investor-education2010.org No, because she is still entitled to her share of the dividends earned. The dividends don't belong to the "fresh money", they are allocated among all the partners in proportion to their ownership shares. Over time, her percentage share of the club will decline and she will receive a smaller percentage of the dividends.
Ira Smilovitz
Join me at Invest Ed 2010
Investor Education at Its Best(TM) Baltimore, MD August 6 - 8, 2010 http://www.investor-education2010.org/ In a message dated 09/13/09 15:03:58 Eastern Daylight Time, swillms@bivio.com writes:
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