yearly deposit
I have a member who makes one deposit yearly to cover the
entire year evenly spread out every 2 months that we meet.
When i do the accounting for it, it shows the member as
making a negative contribution yet having a positive value.
What am i doing wrong in entering this transaction? Thanks
in advance for any help....
entire year evenly spread out every 2 months that we meet.
When i do the accounting for it, it shows the member as
making a negative contribution yet having a positive value.
What am i doing wrong in entering this transaction? Thanks
in advance for any help....
You have two options. You can either just credit the
member with his yearly contribution at the time of receipt, or you can spread
his contribution out over the year. If you want the second option, you would
account for his yearly contribution by making a transfer from Suspense to Cash,
with appropriate remarks. This keeps the cash account in balance. Then, every
two months, you would record a contribution from this member, using the Suspense
account. At the end of the year, the Suspense account would zero
out.
Personally, I think members that do that are asking an
awful lot. They don't want to be bothered with making monthly contributions, but
they don't mind bothering the treasurer to go to extra steps to accomodate
them.
Rip West
Saint Paul, MN
Timothy, you could make his initial annual deposit as a transfer from
Suspense account to your cash account. Then each time you wish to buy units
for him, do a Member Deposit for him using Suspense as your account to draw
from.
While that would do what you asked to do, the next question is why? He has
given you that amount of money which you have put in the bank and it has
become part of your cash assets to use for investing or expenses. So why
not go ahead and deposit it for him as any other member payment right then,
and mark your records as paid through xxx date. That way his money is at
work for him through the units he has bought, as well as the club.
Gene Rooks, SWIM, Orlando
Suspense account to your cash account. Then each time you wish to buy units
for him, do a Member Deposit for him using Suspense as your account to draw
from.
While that would do what you asked to do, the next question is why? He has
given you that amount of money which you have put in the bank and it has
become part of your cash assets to use for investing or expenses. So why
not go ahead and deposit it for him as any other member payment right then,
and mark your records as paid through xxx date. That way his money is at
work for him through the units he has bought, as well as the club.
Gene Rooks, SWIM, Orlando
The PA probably prevents them from doing this. If your PA states that
you must make a payment per meeting, then you must make one per meeting.
Perhaps a slight change to the PA or an agreement from the membership on
the interpretation of the rule would allow for the one payment per year
method.
I agree though that there is no reason to add this headache to a
treasurer.
Jeff
---
Jeff Williams
Distinguished Engineer
Email: jeff_williams@Xiotech.com
Office: 952 983 2445
Mobile: 507 259 1795
Fax: 952 983 2320
Xiotech Corporation
6455 Flying Cloud Drive
Eden Prairie, MN 55344 United States
www.xiotech.com : www.xiotech.com/demo : Toll-Free 866 472 6764
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rooks
While that would do what you asked to do, the next question is why? He
has given you that amount of money which you have put in the bank and it
has become part of your cash assets to use for investing or expenses.
So why not go ahead and deposit it for him as any other member payment
right then, and mark your records as paid through xxx date. That way
his money is at work for him through the units he has bought, as well as
the club.
Gene Rooks, SWIM, Orlando
you must make a payment per meeting, then you must make one per meeting.
Perhaps a slight change to the PA or an agreement from the membership on
the interpretation of the rule would allow for the one payment per year
method.
I agree though that there is no reason to add this headache to a
treasurer.
Jeff
---
Jeff Williams
Distinguished Engineer
Email: jeff_williams@Xiotech.com
Office: 952 983 2445
Mobile: 507 259 1795
Fax: 952 983 2320
Xiotech Corporation
6455 Flying Cloud Drive
Eden Prairie, MN 55344 United States
www.xiotech.com : www.xiotech.com/demo : Toll-Free 866 472 6764
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rooks
While that would do what you asked to do, the next question is why? He
has given you that amount of money which you have put in the bank and it
has become part of your cash assets to use for investing or expenses.
So why not go ahead and deposit it for him as any other member payment
right then, and mark your records as paid through xxx date. That way
his money is at work for him through the units he has bought, as well as
the club.
Gene Rooks, SWIM, Orlando
Jeff, you are right that you may need to amend the PA or bylaws to
accomodate advance payments, which I believe should be posted as paid.
Our PA says a minimum contribution is to be paid 'at the time of each
monthly meeting'. Our Bylaws amended that to read 'on or by the time of
each monthly meeting', with the intent that if paid ahead, that constitues
'by'.
Gene
accomodate advance payments, which I believe should be posted as paid.
Our PA says a minimum contribution is to be paid 'at the time of each
monthly meeting'. Our Bylaws amended that to read 'on or by the time of
each monthly meeting', with the intent that if paid ahead, that constitues
'by'.
Gene
Timothy...
I might be wrong, but if you deposit his entire deposit to Bivio & treat
the entire amount as a member payment, then the member will own more units
than other members. If that is permitted bythe club, then it is OK.
However, our club , and I believe many others, have the same periodic
payments for all members so they each own an equal equity in the club. If
you want to have all members equal, then deposit the check to the suspense
account, and transfer the amount of member payment each time it is due.
Arthur Klages
Treas, Senior Inventment Club LLC
Greensboro NC
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rooks
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 8:51 AM
To: The Club Cafe
Subject: Re: club_cafe: yearly deposit
Timothy, you could make his initial annual deposit as a transfer from
Suspense account to your cash account. Then each time you wish to buy units
for him, do a Member Deposit for him using Suspense as your account to draw
from.
While that would do what you asked to do, the next question is why? He has
given you that amount of money which you have put in the bank and it has
become part of your cash assets to use for investing or expenses. So why
not go ahead and deposit it for him as any other member payment right then,
and mark your records as paid through xxx date. That way his money is at
work for him through the units he has bought, as well as the club.
Gene Rooks, SWIM, Orlando
I might be wrong, but if you deposit his entire deposit to Bivio & treat
the entire amount as a member payment, then the member will own more units
than other members. If that is permitted bythe club, then it is OK.
However, our club , and I believe many others, have the same periodic
payments for all members so they each own an equal equity in the club. If
you want to have all members equal, then deposit the check to the suspense
account, and transfer the amount of member payment each time it is due.
Arthur Klages
Treas, Senior Inventment Club LLC
Greensboro NC
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rooks
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 8:51 AM
To: The Club Cafe
Subject: Re: club_cafe: yearly deposit
Timothy, you could make his initial annual deposit as a transfer from
Suspense account to your cash account. Then each time you wish to buy units
for him, do a Member Deposit for him using Suspense as your account to draw
from.
While that would do what you asked to do, the next question is why? He has
given you that amount of money which you have put in the bank and it has
become part of your cash assets to use for investing or expenses. So why
not go ahead and deposit it for him as any other member payment right then,
and mark your records as paid through xxx date. That way his money is at
work for him through the units he has bought, as well as the club.
Gene Rooks, SWIM, Orlando
There are no compelling reasons to try to keep a club 'equal', and the
longer it is in operation, the more impossible it becomes. In my
estimation, equal means every single person always pays the same amount at
the same time, and always have the same number of units. That situation
just will not last.
As soon as someone skips a payment and doubles up, or pays ahead due to a
long vacation coming up, right away your units purchased will be off
somewhat, even with the same contribution. This is OK, really, they get
credit for when they pay, and that is all that is necessary.
Or perhaps you have a member who needs to take a partial withdrawal, but
still wants to continue with the club.
The next situation is you want a new member. Fine, you say, we will have
him pay in the same amount as everyone else's market value. Then he has the
same number of units as everyone else, but he paid a much different amount
of money for those units, because of the change in unit values. Or, you
can have him pay in the same amount everyone else has paid in to date. Now
he definitely won't have the same number of units, because the units cost a
different amount now than as the others accumulated month by month. So
neither way is truly equal in all respects.
Another thing with accepting new members, if you insist they pay up to
others' values, the older your club gets, it will be difficult to find
qualified prospects who are ready to pay in that much. Far better to
accept new members with whatever initial payment they are comfortable with,
and don't worry about them becoming equal or catching up, because it doesn't
matter, the software takes care of varying contributions and unit values,
and club percentages, just fine.
Gene Rooks, SWIM Club, Orlando
longer it is in operation, the more impossible it becomes. In my
estimation, equal means every single person always pays the same amount at
the same time, and always have the same number of units. That situation
just will not last.
As soon as someone skips a payment and doubles up, or pays ahead due to a
long vacation coming up, right away your units purchased will be off
somewhat, even with the same contribution. This is OK, really, they get
credit for when they pay, and that is all that is necessary.
Or perhaps you have a member who needs to take a partial withdrawal, but
still wants to continue with the club.
The next situation is you want a new member. Fine, you say, we will have
him pay in the same amount as everyone else's market value. Then he has the
same number of units as everyone else, but he paid a much different amount
of money for those units, because of the change in unit values. Or, you
can have him pay in the same amount everyone else has paid in to date. Now
he definitely won't have the same number of units, because the units cost a
different amount now than as the others accumulated month by month. So
neither way is truly equal in all respects.
Another thing with accepting new members, if you insist they pay up to
others' values, the older your club gets, it will be difficult to find
qualified prospects who are ready to pay in that much. Far better to
accept new members with whatever initial payment they are comfortable with,
and don't worry about them becoming equal or catching up, because it doesn't
matter, the software takes care of varying contributions and unit values,
and club percentages, just fine.
Gene Rooks, SWIM Club, Orlando
No problem.
I am in 2 clubs and we have done this years with no sweat.
We just follow a simple system.
Our club meets on the first Tuesday of each month. Valuation date is the
last day of the previous month. All members almost always pay at the
meeting. If a member or two are absent, when their checks are deposited we
manually change the valuation date to the last day of the previous month.
We do not use the penny system which is really a good method. I keep a
spreadsheet with the check numbers and if a check is missing on the broker
statement, we can find which one it is.
However, this has happened only once in all of the time I have been
treasurer.
A few years ago we changed our payments to quarterly, and recently to
semi-annually.
When a new member is accepted, his payment is the last day of the upcoming
month.
You mention that as the club accumulates in value, new members might not be
able to afford the entrance fee. When our value gets too high, we
distribute part of the money.
Also, we may be elitist, but if a prospect is unable to pay our fee, we do
not want him in the club.
I was treasurer of two clubs for a total of 21 years, and now am treasurer
of one of the club for 11 years. Both clubs members unit value is in mid
five figures, and aren't more than $.25 off.
My club beats the averages so we must be doing something right.
I might add that I am 86 years young so maybe that's why we are not so
flexible.
Arthur Klages
Treas. Senior Investment Club
Greensboro NC
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rooks
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:48 PM
To: The Club Cafe
Subject: Re: club_cafe: yearly deposit
There are no compelling reasons to try to keep a club 'equal', and the
longer it is in operation, the more impossible it becomes. In my
estimation, equal means every single person always pays the same amount at
the same time, and always have the same number of units. That situation
just will not last.
As soon as someone skips a payment and doubles up, or pays ahead due to a
long vacation coming up, right away your units purchased will be off
somewhat, even with the same contribution. This is OK, really, they get
credit for when they pay, and that is all that is necessary.
Or perhaps you have a member who needs to take a partial withdrawal, but
still wants to continue with the club.
The next situation is you want a new member. Fine, you say, we will have
him pay in the same amount as everyone else's market value. Then he has the
same number of units as everyone else, but he paid a much different amount
of money for those units, because of the change in unit values. Or, you
can have him pay in the same amount everyone else has paid in to date. Now
he definitely won't have the same number of units, because the units cost a
different amount now than as the others accumulated month by month. So
neither way is truly equal in all respects.
Another thing with accepting new members, if you insist they pay up to
others' values, the older your club gets, it will be difficult to find
qualified prospects who are ready to pay in that much. Far better to
accept new members with whatever initial payment they are comfortable with,
and don't worry about them becoming equal or catching up, because it doesn't
matter, the software takes care of varying contributions and unit values,
and club percentages, just fine.
Gene Rooks, SWIM Club, Orlando
I am in 2 clubs and we have done this years with no sweat.
We just follow a simple system.
Our club meets on the first Tuesday of each month. Valuation date is the
last day of the previous month. All members almost always pay at the
meeting. If a member or two are absent, when their checks are deposited we
manually change the valuation date to the last day of the previous month.
We do not use the penny system which is really a good method. I keep a
spreadsheet with the check numbers and if a check is missing on the broker
statement, we can find which one it is.
However, this has happened only once in all of the time I have been
treasurer.
A few years ago we changed our payments to quarterly, and recently to
semi-annually.
When a new member is accepted, his payment is the last day of the upcoming
month.
You mention that as the club accumulates in value, new members might not be
able to afford the entrance fee. When our value gets too high, we
distribute part of the money.
Also, we may be elitist, but if a prospect is unable to pay our fee, we do
not want him in the club.
I was treasurer of two clubs for a total of 21 years, and now am treasurer
of one of the club for 11 years. Both clubs members unit value is in mid
five figures, and aren't more than $.25 off.
My club beats the averages so we must be doing something right.
I might add that I am 86 years young so maybe that's why we are not so
flexible.
Arthur Klages
Treas. Senior Investment Club
Greensboro NC
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Rooks
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 1:48 PM
To: The Club Cafe
Subject: Re: club_cafe: yearly deposit
There are no compelling reasons to try to keep a club 'equal', and the
longer it is in operation, the more impossible it becomes. In my
estimation, equal means every single person always pays the same amount at
the same time, and always have the same number of units. That situation
just will not last.
As soon as someone skips a payment and doubles up, or pays ahead due to a
long vacation coming up, right away your units purchased will be off
somewhat, even with the same contribution. This is OK, really, they get
credit for when they pay, and that is all that is necessary.
Or perhaps you have a member who needs to take a partial withdrawal, but
still wants to continue with the club.
The next situation is you want a new member. Fine, you say, we will have
him pay in the same amount as everyone else's market value. Then he has the
same number of units as everyone else, but he paid a much different amount
of money for those units, because of the change in unit values. Or, you
can have him pay in the same amount everyone else has paid in to date. Now
he definitely won't have the same number of units, because the units cost a
different amount now than as the others accumulated month by month. So
neither way is truly equal in all respects.
Another thing with accepting new members, if you insist they pay up to
others' values, the older your club gets, it will be difficult to find
qualified prospects who are ready to pay in that much. Far better to
accept new members with whatever initial payment they are comfortable with,
and don't worry about them becoming equal or catching up, because it doesn't
matter, the software takes care of varying contributions and unit values,
and club percentages, just fine.
Gene Rooks, SWIM Club, Orlando
Often my members are away for meetings when they are out of
town.
The month before their departure they write a check for the
months they will be absent. I deposit and credit them for
the month they give it to me. Is there a problem with this
procedure.
Grateful for all help. Liz Schambach/FINC
town.
The month before their departure they write a check for the
months they will be absent. I deposit and credit them for
the month they give it to me. Is there a problem with this
procedure.
Grateful for all help. Liz Schambach/FINC
Often my members are away for meetings when they are out of
town.
The month before their departure they write a check for the
months they will be absent. I deposit and credit them for
the month they give it to me. Is there a problem with this
procedure.
Grateful for all help. Liz Schambach/FINC
town.
The month before their departure they write a check for the
months they will be absent. I deposit and credit them for
the month they give it to me. Is there a problem with this
procedure.
Grateful for all help. Liz Schambach/FINC
no
Rip West
Saint Paul, MN
Saint Paul, MN
Could you put a little less context in, Rip
:-)
Jeff
Xiotech Corporation
jeff_williams@Xiotech.com
952 983 2445 (Office)
507 259 1795 (Mobile)
952 983 2320 (Fax)
www.xiotech.com : Toll-Free 866 472 6764
noRip West
Saint Paul, MN
Not at all, Liz. By giving a postdated check, the money is still in their
bank, not yours, until you run it through. It is only when the member gives
you payments ahead of time that are deposited in full then that you should
post as payments to buy him units at that time, because his money is now in
your bank. Gene
bank, not yours, until you run it through. It is only when the member gives
you payments ahead of time that are deposited in full then that you should
post as payments to buy him units at that time, because his money is now in
your bank. Gene
Hey, I make up for him, Jeff ;-)
Gene
Elizabeth Schambach writes:
> The month before their departure they write a check for the
> months they will be absent. I deposit and credit them for
> the month they give it to me. Is there a problem with this
> procedure.
I think this is fine. Check your partnership agreement to be sure.
A word about partnership agreements. The point of a partnership
agreement is to ensure people don't do bad things. I can't see how
depositing money early is a bad thing. NOT making deposits is a bad
thing. Giving people money early is a good thing.
If your partnership agreement is complex, simplify it. Keep your club
simple, and you'll have a much easier time of keeping it together.
Cheers,
Rob
> The month before their departure they write a check for the
> months they will be absent. I deposit and credit them for
> the month they give it to me. Is there a problem with this
> procedure.
I think this is fine. Check your partnership agreement to be sure.
A word about partnership agreements. The point of a partnership
agreement is to ensure people don't do bad things. I can't see how
depositing money early is a bad thing. NOT making deposits is a bad
thing. Giving people money early is a good thing.
If your partnership agreement is complex, simplify it. Keep your club
simple, and you'll have a much easier time of keeping it together.
Cheers,
Rob