Being new to bivio.com and not that well versed in
accounting activity generally, I have a query regarding the
calculation of individual member tax basis in the member
status report. A comparsion of this data in bivio.com vs.
club Accounting 3.1 shows diffeences for virtually every
member - some relative significant. Is this caused by the
use of the time based option vs. the snapshot choice in the
allocation of taxable entries ?
Would appreciate any comment which might tend to confim this
notion - or otherwise.
J.K.

James, if you used time based in one program, and snapshot choice in the
other, you would have a difference in allocations of taxable transactions,
which would impact the tax basis (Paid in Plus Earnings). Both programs
allow either choice, this is one area where inexperienced treasurers may not
realize they have to be sure they are coordinated if they do a switchover,
along with the fact bivio uses a daily valuation method, while Club
Accounting uses the usually PA mandated once a month valuation, which will
show different results if treasurers aren't mindful of which valuation date
they select for member transactions.

This is not a situation where either program or choice selection is 'wrong',
as long as things are done in accordance with your club's PA. But you
are going to find differences in PIPE, unit values, member values, and
percentages, if you try to track one against the other, and some choices
aren't exactly the same between the two. How you allocate expenses is also
an option which must be carefully chosen to ensure matching results.

Gene Rooks, Space Coast Chapter

James Kolster writes:
> member - some relative significant. Is this caused by the
> use of the time based option vs. the snapshot choice in the
> allocation of taxable entries ?

Gene is correct.

There could be other differences. For example, bivio has automatic
year-end allocations, and CA3 does not. This could result in
differences. I don't remember if CA3 has automatic auditing yet, but
bivio has always had it, and often this will result in allocation
problems.

Rob

Gene Rooks wrote:
> James, if you used time based in one program, and snapshot choice in the
> other, you would have a difference in allocations of taxable transactions,
> which would impact the tax basis (Paid in Plus Earnings). Both programs
> allow either choice, this is one area where inexperienced treasurers may not
> realize they have to be sure they are coordinated if they do a switchover,
> along with the fact bivio uses a daily valuation method, while Club
> Accounting uses the usually PA mandated once a month valuation, which will
> show different results if treasurers aren't mindful of which valuation date
> they select for member transactions.
>
> This is not a situation where either program or choice selection is 'wrong',
> as long as things are done in accordance with your club's PA. But you
> are going to find differences in PIPE, unit values, member values, and
> percentages, if you try to track one against the other, and some choices
> aren't exactly the same between the two. How you allocate expenses is also
> an option which must be carefully chosen to ensure matching results.
>
> Gene Rooks, Space Coast Chapter

Thank you. This is what I was certain was the case, but am
glad to have it confirmed.

Gene,

> ... along with the fact bivio uses a
> daily valuation method, while Club
> Accounting uses the usually PA
> mandated once a month valuation ...

I think that impliess, incorrectly, that bivio does
something undesirable with regard to valuations while the
different approach taken by ICLUB's CA3/CAO products are
somehow "better" at following the typical club Partnership
Agreement (PA).

IMO, the only real difference between bivio and CA3/CAO in
this regard is that CA3/CAO assumes which valuation date to
use for member transactions while bivio requires that you
explicitly state the date you want to be used. I much
prefer the bivio approach.

None of the club accounting software (bivio, or ICLUB's
CA3/CAO) have any idea what your club's PA says. With CA3
and CAO you must manually create a valuation every month for
the date specified in your PA. People are often warned
against creating more than one valuation per month (and
nothing in CA3/CAO prevents doing so).

With bivo you must enter the valuation date specified in
your PA when you make member deposits or withdrawals. There
is no need for a separate step of creating valuations (as
there is in CA3/CAO).

Regardless of whether you use bivo or CA3/CAO, you must tell
the software one way or another what valuation date to use
for member transactions. With bivio you explicitly enter
the valuation date as part of the deposit or withdrawal.
With CA3/CAO the software uses the date of the most recent
valuation (hopefully you remembered to create one on the
appropriate date!).

> show different results if treasurers aren't
> mindful of which valuation date they
> select for member transactions.

And CA3/CAO will create incorrect results if treasurers
aren't mindful of creating only one valuation per month and
creating them on the appropriate monthly date.

With bivio, when you enter a member transaction you know
*exactly* which valuation date you're using, because you
must enter it as part of the transaction screen.

bivo will produce incorrect results if you enter incorrect
valuation dates for member transactions.

CA3/CAO will produce incorrect results if you forget to
create a valuation each month, or create it on the wrong
date, or create a second later valuation in the same month.

-Jim Thomas

Uh, Jim, I didn't consider my reply indicated anything more than a
difference that treasurers who are switchung should be aware of. Gene

I have an additional question regarding valuation dates. We
used CAO and are switching to bivio. So far, I haven't been
able to make the valuation on my TD Ameritrade stament
match. Does that matter?

Charyl
GenXchange Investment Club

Jim Thomas wrote:
> Gene,
>
> > ... along with the fact bivio uses a
> > daily valuation method, while Club
> > Accounting uses the usually PA
> > mandated once a month valuation ...
>
> I think that impliess, incorrectly, that bivio does
> something undesirable with regard to valuations while the
> different approach taken by ICLUB's CA3/CAO products are
> somehow "better" at following the typical club Partnership
> Agreement (PA).
>
> IMO, the only real difference between bivio and CA3/CAO in
> this regard is that CA3/CAO assumes which valuation date to
> use for member transactions while bivio requires that you
> explicitly state the date you want to be used. I much
> prefer the bivio approach.
>
> None of the club accounting software (bivio, or ICLUB's
> CA3/CAO) have any idea what your club's PA says. With CA3
> and CAO you must manually create a valuation every month for
> the date specified in your PA. People are often warned
> against creating more than one valuation per month (and
> nothing in CA3/CAO prevents doing so).
>
> With bivo you must enter the valuation date specified in
> your PA when you make member deposits or withdrawals. There
> is no need for a separate step of creating valuations (as
> there is in CA3/CAO).
>
> Regardless of whether you use bivo or CA3/CAO, you must tell
> the software one way or another what valuation date to use
> for member transactions. With bivio you explicitly enter
> the valuation date as part of the deposit or withdrawal.
> With CA3/CAO the software uses the date of the most recent
> valuation (hopefully you remembered to create one on the
> appropriate date!).
>
> > show different results if treasurers aren't
> > mindful of which valuation date they
> > select for member transactions.
>
> And CA3/CAO will create incorrect results if treasurers
> aren't mindful of creating only one valuation per month and
> creating them on the appropriate monthly date.
>
> With bivio, when you enter a member transaction you know
> *exactly* which valuation date you're using, because you
> must enter it as part of the transaction screen.
>
> bivo will produce incorrect results if you enter incorrect
> valuation dates for member transactions.
>
> CA3/CAO will produce incorrect results if you forget to
> create a valuation each month, or create it on the wrong
> date, or create a second later valuation in the same month.
>
> -Jim Thomas

Charyl, are you using the last day of the month, coinciding with your broker
statement, as your club's official valuation? If so, there could be a
penny or so difference share price in some of the stocks, which is basically
inconsequential, since share prices change with the next days first trading
second. You should be able to compare the statement to your valuation
report and see which ones differ, if it is significant, you can manually
change it in bivio.

The more important thing, does your cash balance agree, and do your number
of shares, including fractions, agree?

Gene Rooks
Space Coast Chapter