One thing missing from Bivio included in Club Accounting
Online is a "watchlist" function. Basically, club members
could add stocks to this watch list, specify the date, and
then watch how they performed. The list included price as
of date, current price, and percent increase or decline. If
you guys could work a function like this in, that would be
great!

Oh yes, that would be great! Bivio, when asked last year proposed opening a
second account just for Watch List - didn't go over well in our Club.
Val
----- Original Message -----
From: "Micah Sampson" <kargon@bivio.com>
To: <club_cafe@bivio.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 3:30 PM
Subject: club_cafe: Watch List


> One thing missing from Bivio included in Club Accounting
> Online is a "watchlist" function. Basically, club members
> could add stocks to this watch list, specify the date, and
> then watch how they performed. The list included price as
> of date, current price, and percent increase or decline. If
> you guys could work a function like this in, that would be
> great!

Hi Micah,

> One thing missing from Bivio included in Club Accounting
> Online is a "watchlist" function.

I might agree with you if this were a full service investing community.
Bivio is a club accounting company. They provide everything to accommodate
our accounting needs, and at a fair price. In fact, they have tossed in a
few luxury items (!) like file storage and message boards.

The competition, on the other hand, is trying to cover every base of a
club's existence, from accounting to software to education, etc. And
unfortunately, Bivio will get compared negatively. But I'd rather have one
really good accounting program that is superior to the rest, than to have
Rob and his crew attempt to see-all, be-all, and do an average job!
Wouldn't you?

My question would be: How much are you willing to pay for portfolio
management and stock analysis tools to be placed on this site!? <G>

Lynn Ostrem, President
garbagecop@earthlink.net
Crow River Investment Club
www.bivio.com/crowriver

Lynn
You didn't ask me but I'd like to take a shot. As of this month we started
to pay bookkeeping /accounting service $75 a month to basically compile
"Bivio Reports" information and stock information on one sheet. On the back
they keep our watch list up to date which we were not been able to get from
Bivio in format that's useful or desired by members. Then at end of year
they will give us tax forms including state. Bivio is a wonderful program
and unbelievable what it can do for the price. Most of our members are over
70 years old (still sharp) but are not sufficiently computer literate to
meander through various nooks and crannies hidden throughout Bivio. Not
particularly user friendly or intuitive, must have been designed by
engineers, German probably. Members decided to distribute 50 shares of a
good financial Company to each member (they have their reasons), it took 270
steps to accomplish this mission. I had to do it twice since I logically
used preceding day's closing price instead of day of transfer price. There
was no easy way to accomplish a simple change in price. It took me hours
looking for clues why Club K-1s were screwed up. Thanks to Rip and Ira's
help All I had to do was to change from snapshot to time base accounting.
But now Bivio cash is $2600 lower than our brokerage account, K-1s are great
however.
What I really would be willing to pay for would be instructional DVD. Bivio
should do it in two parts. First DVD should be free. This would be a
promotional information showing what you'll get for ones membership fee.
Second DVD would be instructional. I would gladly pay $10 each and buy 3 or
more to so I can get our 30 members up to speed and pass it on to new
members. I'd be glad to pay double what we pay if we could get Watch List
and Portfolio Report but it has to be in format that members want and not on
multiple pages.
Val

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Ostrem" <garbagecop@earthlink.net>
To: "The Club Cafe" <club_cafe@bivio.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: club_cafe: Watch List


> Hi Micah,
>
>> One thing missing from Bivio included in Club Accounting
>> Online is a "watchlist" function.
>
> I might agree with you if this were a full service investing community.
> Bivio is a club accounting company. They provide everything to
> accommodate our accounting needs, and at a fair price. In fact, they have
> tossed in a few luxury items (!) like file storage and message boards.
>
> The competition, on the other hand, is trying to cover every base of a
> club's existence, from accounting to software to education, etc. And
> unfortunately, Bivio will get compared negatively. But I'd rather have
> one really good accounting program that is superior to the rest, than to
> have Rob and his crew attempt to see-all, be-all, and do an average job!
> Wouldn't you?
>
> My question would be: How much are you willing to pay for portfolio
> management and stock analysis tools to be placed on this site!? <G>
>
> Lynn Ostrem, President
> garbagecop@earthlink.net
> Crow River Investment Club
> www.bivio.com/crowriver
>
>
>

Very clear post, Val. Thank you. I think the dual DVD idea would benefit
everyone. I'm sure that Rob and crew are watching and will serious consider
any recommendation that will ease new members (and old ones, too!) into the
system.

I'm a little concerned that you would have to pay someone $75/month just to
create reports. It seems like someone is taking advantage of you. I wish
we were closer. A simple class or two on club accounting might give you a
different perspective and allow you to utilize some of the current reports.
That would save you the extra cost.

Lynn O.

You're very kind in your willingness to help. I'm not convinced that our
problem is not understanding club accounting I believe it's more of not
being able to understand the many pieces of information hidden in Bivio and
not being proficient on computer use. I introduced our Club to Bivio last
July as a mirror to our brokerage activity. I wanted to provide members with
total club transparency. Bivio did this beautifully. Frustration started two
months into Bivio when I identified total withdrawal check to a member and
value changed automatically. Check has been cashed and it wants me to change
the amount. So it took me an hour to figure out how to force the numbers so
Bivio and Club would be satisfied. I didn't know where to seek help, I
assumed club cafe' was there to discuss stocks and investment strategies. I
can go on but you get the point. Had I not stumbled on cafe', I would have
given up long ago. I was just looking for original date and price of a stock
we just distributed. I know it's in there, seen it many times, intuitive
search lead me to opening balance on 01/01/06 but not point of origin.
Frustrating. The $75/month was a result of a search committee I appointed to
find something or someone that will give us monthly reports and do taxes at
end of the year. Not a single member questioned this price and I even
pointed out the company will be using mostly Bivio information.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Ostrem" <garbagecop@earthlink.net>
To: "The Club Cafe" <club_cafe@bivio.com>
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:30 PM
Subject: Re: club_cafe: Watch List


> Very clear post, Val. Thank you. I think the dual DVD idea would benefit
> everyone. I'm sure that Rob and crew are watching and will serious
> consider any recommendation that will ease new members (and old ones,
> too!) into the system.
>
> I'm a little concerned that you would have to pay someone $75/month just
> to create reports. It seems like someone is taking advantage of you. I
> wish we were closer. A simple class or two on club accounting might give
> you a different perspective and allow you to utilize some of the current
> reports. That would save you the extra cost.
>
> Lynn O.
>

Val, I have not replied before to your problems, because others were, and I
am not an expert on bivio. However, I do consider myself qualified to
advise on club accounting in general. I cannot imagine what your members
are thinking to OK $75 a MONTH to take care of club reports? Well, maybe I
can. None of them want anything to do with it, and as long as you are
taking primary responsibility, they will go along with anything you ask.
One of the best favors you can do for yourself is to enlist someone to be
your co-treasurer, and have them start learning the system. Insist on it.
Pick someone who is comfortable using the computer, not someone who is still
scared to do Email.

May I suggest you contact your local chapter and find out when they are
having their next class on club accounting. If I recall, you were the one
who wanted to just consider member payments as fees in bivio, which is
totally at variance with the unit value system of BI that both bivio and
Club Accounting Online from IClub use. I have written some articles on
basic Club Accounting that you can find on the BetterInvesting website by
searching under my name, Gene Rooks, if you are a BI member. While the
program I was referring to was Club Accounting Online, the principles
involved apply equally well to bivio, and the entry screens aren't that much
different.

Gene Rooks, Space Coast Chapter
Accounting Instructor

Hi Gene,

I agree with you, in that, I can see why they would want to hire it out. But
I also agree that a treasurer and co-treasurer, together, could take ONE
class and/or sift through the online Bivio manual together to determine how
to best disceminate and utilize the information Bivio provides, in order to
cancel the $75/month report generator.

Lynn O.

Val Worona writes:
> Bivio and Club would be satisfied. I didn't know where to seek help, I
> assumed club cafe' was there to discuss stocks and investment
> strategies.

You can always mail support@bivio.com. We're always ready to help our
customers!

Cheers
Rob Nagler
bivio Inc.

Lynn,

This is off the subject, but since you got me involved in Manifest
Investing, I was wondering if you have any bargins in renewing my
sibscription? I really learned a lot while being a member and I want to
continue to keep on learning especially since I am senior citizen. Thank
you so much for being there.

Rose Rooney

 Original Message -----
From: "Lynn Ostrem" <garbagecop@earthlink.net>
To: "The Club Cafe" <club_cafe@bivio.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 11:28 AM
Subject: Re: club_cafe: Watch List


> Hi Gene,
>
> I agree with you, in that, I can see why they would want to hire it out.
> But I also agree that a treasurer and co-treasurer, together, could take
> ONE class and/or sift through the online Bivio manual together to
> determine how to best disceminate and utilize the information Bivio
> provides, in order to cancel the $75/month report generator.
>
> Lynn O.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.0.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.6/617 - Release Date: 1/5/2007
>
>

Hi Rosemary.

I'll put you in contact with others in your group. Contact me privately at
garbagecop@earthlink.net

Lynn O.



> Lynn,
>
> This is off the subject, but since you got me involved in Manifest
> Investing, I was wondering if you have any bargins in renewing my
> sibscription? I really learned a lot while being a member and I want to
> continue to keep on learning especially since I am senior citizen. Thank
> you so much for being there.
>
> Rose Rooney
>
> Original Message -----
> From: "Lynn Ostrem" <garbagecop@earthlink.net>
> To: "The Club Cafe" <club_cafe@bivio.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 11:28 AM
> Subject: Re: club_cafe: Watch List
>
>
>> Hi Gene,
>>
>> I agree with you, in that, I can see why they would want to hire it out.
>> But I also agree that a treasurer and co-treasurer, together, could take
>> ONE class and/or sift through the online Bivio manual together to
>> determine how to best disceminate and utilize the information Bivio
>> provides, in order to cancel the $75/month report generator.
>>
>> Lynn O.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.0.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.6/617 - Release Date: 1/5/2007
>>
>>
>

Lynn - I am not asking for all the tools you mention, just a
watch list. This isn't portfolio management or stock
analysis tools, it's a simple watchlist. Very easy to
program.

Lynn Ostrem wrote:
> Hi Micah,
>
> > One thing missing from Bivio included in Club Accounting
> > Online is a "watchlist" function.
>
> I might agree with you if this were a full service investing community.
> Bivio is a club accounting company. They provide everything to accommodate
> our accounting needs, and at a fair price. In fact, they have tossed in a
> few luxury items (!) like file storage and message boards.
>
> The competition, on the other hand, is trying to cover every base of a
> club's existence, from accounting to software to education, etc. And
> unfortunately, Bivio will get compared negatively. But I'd rather have one
> really good accounting program that is superior to the rest, than to have
> Rob and his crew attempt to see-all, be-all, and do an average job!
> Wouldn't you?
>
> My question would be: How much are you willing to pay for portfolio
> management and stock analysis tools to be placed on this site!? <G>
>
> Lynn Ostrem, President
> garbagecop@earthlink.net
> Crow River Investment Club
> www.bivio.com/crowriver

Yep, I can certainly see your point, Micah. It's just a watchlist. But in
the last few weeks, alone, bivio support has been asked to include about 3
years' worth of programming. Some people are asking for a bunch of new
reports and tools, but others are only asking for one simple thing.

I was just trying to say that it adds up. I know they seriously consider
everyone's wish list items. But to keep the program simple and affordable,
they will have to draw the line somewhere. They will have decide if a watch
list is more or less important than revamping the Valuation statement, for
example. I'm sure they will do the best they can.

If you don't need a portfolio management tool from bivio, can I ask what you
currently use for that? Is there a reason you don't like it for a watch
list too? I only ask because my club vascilates between 2-3 sources for a
watch list.

Thanks,

Lynn O.

Gene
Your suggestions on co-treasurer is a good idea, I'll have to see how this
fits our by-laws. My treasurer is somewhere on some exotic island for the
last 3 months, VP has been away for 2 months so it's me and the secretary.
Our problem is not in accounting it's in reporting. When I introduced Bivio
to our Club about 6 months back, it was for transparency of our brokerage
account. We switched brokers from full service(same for 42 years) to on line
discount, saving several thousand dollars in commission a year. I was
impressed with autotrasfere of information from broker to Bivio, showed
members how to get reports on ARR, realized and unrealized gain, list of
dividends and interests, etc. For the meetings members required a hard copy
of above information plus 52 week high/low, PE's and cash balance that I got
from brokers report. Now we're looking at a dozen pages that months before
cost us $40/month for bookkeepers report. After several month of this,
members unanimously voted to return to one sheet report of old which
included "Watch List". So they were pleased to pay $75 for a report in the
form they want and understand (this includes doing club taxes, state and
federal).
Initially I thought all I had to do was to identify checks, in and out.
Penny tagging system was great so "in" was simple. Expenses were no more
than 3 check a month. This was a gross underestimation. Manually inputting 7
months of transaction was a chore, but it gave me a detailed look at our
past history. Frustration came when a member withdrew and Bivio would change
the amount of withdrawal check without explanation. Did this for two other
members. By the time I got it figured how to fudge the actual number members
lost confidence in Bivio and I couldn't convince them that Bivio is the one
correct. I think I should have the final say on these numbers, Bivio's
responsibility should end after informing me of a possible error and not to
control the numbers. Trying to have 50 shares of stock distribution to each
member was too challenging as I discussed this before. Cash balance has been
very accurate then several months ago deviation from broker became 27 cents
then $499.73, increasing to +- $600, peaking at $2600 last week and now at
$17.51. No clue, since account_sys seems accurate.
 The Club is in 43rd year and non of the members ever heard of unit value
system. They pay $100 each month, have dinner and whatever is left is used
for investing. Each member has equal equity. The reason I wanted to label
member payment as fees is that I don't have an accurate fee/payment
distribution. Then some members pay one annual amount in January, some pay
every four months but at least half pay monthly. How would you handle it
Gene? Our meeting is somewhat of a social event where we discuss stocks and
trends nationally and internationally and if Club makes money that's another
plus. It's mostly retired business owners, heavy on doctors(9) couple CPA's,
lawyer and two engineers. An amazing collection of knowledge and experience
that come up with great stock leads.
I want to thank you, Rip and Ira for you kind help. Mostly for making me
focus on my situation and making me see we're a square peg trying to fit a
round hole. I think we'll stay with Bivio for monitoring portfolio, brokers
activity and keep track of member fees received by mail(didn't tell you I
found 3 members overpaid $100 each) ignore its cash balance and pay
$75/month for a report that members want.(it's only $2.50 per member).
Val

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Rooks" <generooks@cfl.rr.com>
To: "The Club Cafe" <club_cafe@bivio.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: club_cafe: Watch List


> Val, I have not replied before to your problems, because others were, and
> I am not an expert on bivio. However, I do consider myself qualified to
> advise on club accounting in general. I cannot imagine what your members
> are thinking to OK $75 a MONTH to take care of club reports? Well, maybe
> I can. None of them want anything to do with it, and as long as you are
> taking primary responsibility, they will go along with anything you ask.
> One of the best favors you can do for yourself is to enlist someone to be
> your co-treasurer, and have them start learning the system. Insist on it.
> Pick someone who is comfortable using the computer, not someone who is
> still scared to do Email.
>
> May I suggest you contact your local chapter and find out when they are
> having their next class on club accounting. If I recall, you were the
> one who wanted to just consider member payments as fees in bivio, which is
> totally at variance with the unit value system of BI that both bivio and
> Club Accounting Online from IClub use. I have written some articles on
> basic Club Accounting that you can find on the BetterInvesting website by
> searching under my name, Gene Rooks, if you are a BI member. While the
> program I was referring to was Club Accounting Online, the principles
> involved apply equally well to bivio, and the entry screens aren't that
> much different.
>
> Gene Rooks, Space Coast Chapter
> Accounting Instructor
>

Val, - How would you handle it Gene? I would run screaming for the hills
;-) You are so right, you are trying to fit a very square peg of 42 years
of basically home grown accounting into a very round hole of computerized
online unit value accounting.

Before anything else, I would find out why your cash is so out of whack.
Account Synch can't do everything, and probably it ties into some of those
withdrawals. There is no way bivio could calculate a correct withdrawal for
you, because you aren't running your books on the unit value system, where
everyone buys units based on their value the month they paid them. If
bivio can't clear the member on what you actually paid them that you think
is correct, you may have to adjust some things with beginning balance
entries.

I don't know how you compute withdrawals, but in the unit value system, it
is based on a members market value as of the valuation date your PA says it
should be effective, normally the next valuation date after they turn in
their withdrawal. When people pay on irregular times, even if they
basically pay the same amount in, in the unit value system they wouldn't be
buying the same exact number of units as each other, since unit values
change with each month's valuation. Transferring the 50 shares of stock to
everyone was probably more trouble and cost than it was worth, and not the
most tax advantageous way to give them a partial payout, but that is now
water under the bridge.

If your club really wanted to bring their bookkeeping into the 21st Century,
you would need to educate them on how it should be done, not on how they
have been doing it, based on a grossly outdated PA that should probably be
rewritten. You would probably have to get them to agree on certain member
values as of the end of 2006, perhaps, to get a good fresh start, once your
cash is in line, and make beginning balance entries, then start your entries
in accordance with standard club accounting methods. Otherwise, you may
need to quit trying to coordinate with bivio, and go back to your old
system. Another suggestion would be to pay for your own meals, and
contribute a set amount to buy units. You really need an experienced club
accounting treasurer, perhaps from your local BI chapter, to sit with you on
this. Or, turn the whole mess over to one of the CPA's you have in the
club. I wish you the best, I am not able to input bivio data from another
club to get a closer look, like I can with Club Accounting Online, so
generalities is all I can offer. Gene Rooks, Space Coast Chapter