club_cafe: What happened to the $69 basic subscription?
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In a message dated 12/18/2006 10:43:14 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
nagler@bivio.biz writes:
After much thought and consideration, we decided that supporting Club Rob,
While I applaud your efforts to get clubs away from the "problems" of
spin-offs, mergers, etc., AccountSync is not likely to be the cureall. Too many
brokerages don't know how to treat these transactions correctly that I'm sure
there will still be a significant amount of handholding needed.
Ira Smilovitz I am confused because I just renewed our subscription for $69.00. I
had not heard that anything was to be changed or different.
I agree with Ira. We use Ameritrade and they often have not treated
spin-offs and mergers correctly. I almost always have to check with
Ira and others in Club Cafe. I would be very uncomfortable with leaving it
all to Ameritrade.
Sandy Starr
----- Original Message -----
While Account Synch does seem a good way to get
the transactions into your program more quickly in the first place, it
would be a very unwise treasurer who did not audit each entry very carefully, to
edit any necessary items. It is not a good idea to foster the notion
that AS or The One Minute program is going to take care of
everything. Your clubs are still going to need treasurers who will verify
all entries, and not think they can just print the reports as is and go to the
meetings, or especially go through the year end tax process without careful
auditing.
Gene Rooks, Director
Space Coast Chapter
Accounting Instructor Rob, While I applaud your efforts to get clubs away from the
"problems" of spin-offs, mergers, etc., AccountSync is not likely to be the
cureall.
I agree with Ira's comments here. I found out about your plans
through a conversation between you and Jim Thomas yesterday. I don't
recall ever receiving proper notification with all the facts. So if this
is a test to see if people are interested, I would respectfully like to voice my
opinion.
Crow River Investment Club can count on one hand the number of times in 5
years we've had to ask questions about the service. There is a perfectly
good online manual, and a whole host of talented individuals on the Club Cafe to
help us out. In fact, the last two merger questions I had were helped by
Ira and Jim, without the aid of the awesome Bivio technical support staff.
Out of respect for you and your
staff, I have remained silent on the issue of AccountSync. Most clubs have
one deposit, and one or two broker transactions per month. Add to that the
fact that you've made the accounting program so simple an 8 year old child could
do it. I personally see AccountSync as a lazy way out of 5 minutes of
work. Besides, any decent, self-respecting treasurer is going to spend
that 5 minutes verifiying the AccountSync transactions anyway, so there is no
savings, hence no benefit. And I'm betting many treasurers are going to
rely on the program without verifying it.
Frankly, I'm concerned that you
would raise our rates by 43% overnight, without input from your most devout
and loyal clientele. AccountSync will certainly raise as many questions,
if not more. I'm concerned that this size of increase will cause some
clubs to finally toss in the towel (so many increases this last couple of
years). And I'm concerned about clubs like mine that have small deep
discount brokers like Firstrade. What happens to us!? Are we to
incur substantial transfer fees to most to another broker, as a convenience to
Bivio??
Had I been asked my opinion, as a
client, I would have strongly suggested that Bivio set up a 900 number or some
such method of charging for tech support calls or emails. I would gladly
pay for help if the cost is affecting your ability to service the client.
I have to question how much tech time is spent on simple questions, and how much
has been devoted to transferring club books. I think you would get just as
many clubs transferring from CA3 by using ending balances. That alone,
would save on tech time. I just seems like there should be some middle
ground here.
Just like another poster, I have
already been "invoiced" and charged for my 2007 accounting. I think
the timing of this is a little unfair.
IraS1@aol.com writes: > While I applaud your efforts to get clubs away from the "problems" > of spin-offs, mergers, etc., AccountSync is not likely to be the > cureall. Too many brokerages don't know how to treat these > transactions correctly that I'm sure there will still be a > significant amount of handholding needed. If you bothered to try AccountSync before commenting on it, you would learn that we handle this problems extremely effectively and automatically. While I greatly trust all the opinions you folks (Lynn, Gene, etc.) provide, it's in areas where you are knowledgeable that counts. As far as AccountSync goes, you are all novices. Rob Phil and Sandy Starr writes: > I would be very uncomfortable with leaving it all to Ameritrade. AccountSync(tm) is a bivio product. It simply downloads transactions automatically from Ameritrade. AccountSync validates all data in numerous ways, including automatically verifying cash balances, and enters them *correctly* into your books. bivio gathers the data on spin-offs and mergers manually, and enters them in bivio's database, which is then shared by all AccountSync, ActivePartnership, and AccountKeeper customers. Ameritrade does not provide you with this information. Rob Gene Rooks writes: > It is not a good idea to foster the notion that AS or The One Minute > program is going to take care of everything. You should always audit your books. That doesn't mean you have to *manually* enter all transactions. Let AccountSync enter the transactions without typos or "woops, I forgot to enter that transaction", and you can audit to your heart's content. Indeed, this is one of the reasons most firms hire a separate company to audit their books. The auditor and bookkeepers are are two different sets of people. With AccountSync, the auditor is still you, and the bookkeeping is left to bivio. Rob Lynn Ostrem writes: > Frankly, I'm concerned that you would raise our rates by 43% > overnight, without input from your most devout and loyal clientele. The last price change was in September, 2003. It's not overnight, it's over three years. What has the price of gas done over that period? If you would prefer that we charge market rates, like gas stations do, we could price just below our only competitor which charges $69.99 for Club Accounting and $89.99 for taxes. These prices were raised overnight, too, without your consent. Therefore, we could charge $159.88 for Club Accounting with taxes without automatic imports. Or, you could pay $99 for AccountSync with taxes and automatic imports. Which price would you prefer? > Just like another poster, I have already been "invoiced" and charged > for my 2007 accounting. I think the timing of this is a little > unfair. You were not invoiced. You were sent a subscription reminder which specifically does not include a price, because out of courtesy to our customers we remind them two months, one month, and at expiry. They can still read their accounting *after* expiry (another feature our competitors don't provide), and they can renew any time after expiry. This time span is too long to "guarantee" a price. No business in their right mind would guarantee a non-competitive price like this. We will guarantee that we will beat our competitors price any time! Rob Rob, you are right in my case, I am a novice using bivio, and you will probably be getting some 'stupid' questions from me as I analyze my freshly updated data and compare it with my present CAO program. But, I am sure Ira, Lynn, and Rip have been using it long enough to make reasonable suggestions. Even with my shorter time of working with other clubs and treasurers, I know that there are some of them out there who don't grasp all the trickier issues involved with club accounting, who may too easily grab on to the 'automatic' features without a critical eye. That is why we suggest putting the brakes on overly promoting it as foolproof and trouble free, because that can lead to some problems, or members in some clubs getting shortchanged. Encourage them to use it, yes, but also to verify things as they go. You do have a great product, the price including Account Synch and tax printer is right, and I love the ex-dividend date pop-in feature. I do think it wouldn't have hurt to leave in the basic $69.99 without Account Synch, though, for those who would just as soon make their own entries. I'm sure I will be back at you later. Gene Rooks, Space Coast Chapter I believe Club Accounitng is $159.00 once. That does not recur each year. My subscription renewal to Bivio said $69.00 and I wrote a check and got a thank you from Bivio for resubscribing. There was no mention of this change!! I am quite upset with this! I wish you had told me before I reupped because I probably would not have. When are you going to tell me it is $30.00 more? Sandy Starr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Nagler" <nagler@bivio.biz> To: "The Club Cafe" <club_cafe@bivio.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 10:35 AM Subject: Re: club_cafe: What happened to the $69 basic subscription? > Lynn Ostrem writes: >> Frankly, I'm concerned that you would raise our rates by 43% >> overnight, without input from your most devout and loyal clientele. > > The last price change was in September, 2003. It's not overnight, > it's over three years. What has the price of gas done over that > period? > > If you would prefer that we charge market rates, like gas stations do, > we could price just below our only competitor which charges $69.99 for > Club Accounting and $89.99 for taxes. These prices were raised > overnight, too, without your consent. > > Therefore, we could charge $159.88 for Club Accounting with taxes > without automatic imports. Or, you could pay $99 for AccountSync with > taxes and automatic imports. > > Which price would you prefer? > >> Just like another poster, I have already been "invoiced" and charged >> for my 2007 accounting. I think the timing of this is a little >> unfair. > > You were not invoiced. You were sent a subscription reminder which > specifically does not include a price, because out of courtesy to our > customers we remind them two months, one month, and at expiry. They > can still read their accounting *after* expiry (another feature our > competitors don't provide), and they can renew any time after expiry. > > This time span is too long to "guarantee" a price. No business in > their right mind would guarantee a non-competitive price like this. > > We will guarantee that we will beat our competitors price any > time! > > Rob > Phil, you haven't checked the prices on IClub's Club Accounting desktop program lately. The initial cost of the software is now $189.99 if you are a member of StockCentral, their new data and investing service, which includes the first year of the maintenance subscription. After that, you do have to renew annually for $49 presently to continue to have access to the updates and ability to input prices or export your data. The first year membership to StockCentral is free, after that it is $39.~ Their Club Accounting Online is now $59.99 annual subscription for StockCentral members, of $69.99. That does NOT include Tax Printer, which is separate, for another $59~ Gene Rooks, Space Coast Chapter This is a pretty bad case of customer service. Let me first say, the money is one thing, you have every right to increase your price, but for goodness sake let us know. This is basically holding our information ransom at the very last minute. You should have been sending emails and info on the web page back in June or July. I received the emails as well. Yesterday I tried to renew and of course there is no renew feature any longer so I emailed customer support. They replied back, ohh, sorry try this link, Tried it, same as where i was just at, replied back again. Same thing, try this link. Cut and past the page and sent back. OHHHH sorry there is a bug in the system and we forwarded on to tech support. THEN, 47 minutes later a new reply, "This is not a bug, we are in the process of discontinuing Club Accounting." Their own customer support staff does not even know what is going on. So here we are, 10 days left before our subscription runs out and NOW you tell us you are raising the price, like lynn says, 43%, holy crap. I am reccomending to our members we discontinue Bivio based on the crap for service on this issue. If others do not see this as an issue you need to wake up as investors examing companies for to invest in. Rob Nagler wrote: > Lynn Ostrem writes: > > Frankly, I'm concerned that you would raise our rates by 43% > > overnight, without input from your most devout and loyal clientele. > > The last price change was in September, 2003. It's not overnight, > it's over three years. What has the price of gas done over that > period? > > If you would prefer that we charge market rates, like gas stations do, > we could price just below our only competitor which charges $69.99 for > Club Accounting and $89.99 for taxes. These prices were raised > overnight, too, without your consent. > > Therefore, we could charge $159.88 for Club Accounting with taxes > without automatic imports. Or, you could pay $99 for AccountSync with > taxes and automatic imports. > > Which price would you prefer? > > > Just like another poster, I have already been "invoiced" and charged > > for my 2007 accounting. I think the timing of this is a little > > unfair. > > You were not invoiced. You were sent a subscription reminder which > specifically does not include a price, because out of courtesy to our > customers we remind them two months, one month, and at expiry. They > can still read their accounting *after* expiry (another feature our > competitors don't provide), and they can renew any time after expiry. > > This time span is too long to "guarantee" a price. No business in > their right mind would guarantee a non-competitive price like this. > > We will guarantee that we will beat our competitors price any > time! > > Rob ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Munn" <jmunn1@nycap.rr.com> To: "The Club Cafe" <club_cafe@bivio.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 8:10 AM Subject: Re: club_cafe: Re: What happened to the $69 basic subscription? > Sandy... > > Like you, I don't appreciate the lack of notice and sharp and sudden price > increase, not the requirement to use Accountsync. However, I think you > and others who would characterize bivio's customer service as "crap" is > going too far. bivio has had the best customer service I've encountered > of any service business. Responses are fast; and few problems I've seen > posted take more than a day to resolve. And for the most part, > information is transparent. > > I understand the annoyance of prices being raised, and being raised by a > huge margin. But consider bivio's position too. The market is > contracting. Clubs are folding and costs of running a business are being > spread across fewer clubs. I understand what's going on. > > If you're going to fault bivio for anything, fault them for doing a crappy > marketing job. This change is being poorly implemented from a customer > relations perspective and bivio has a customer relations nightmare to deal > with. But don't fault them for providing poor service. > > Finally, ask yourself if you're not cutting off your nose to spite your > face. When you look at the more costly alternatives and the difficulties > of moving your accounting platform to an alternate system, what are you > gaining? And what is it going to cost in terms of dollars, time and > accuracy? > > John Munn > Cross Country Investment Club > Capitol Investors Investment Club > > > > > Sandy Larson wrote: > >>This is a pretty bad case of customer service....cut...I am reccomending >>to our members we >>discontinue Bivio based on the crap for service on this >>issue. >> > > > Sandy... Like you, I don't appreciate the lack of notice and sharp and sudden price increase, not the requirement to use Accountsync. However, I think you and others who would characterize bivio's customer service as "crap" is going too far. bivio has had the best customer service I've encountered of any service business. Responses are fast; and few problems I've seen posted take more than a day to resolve. And for the most part, information is transparent. I understand the annoyance of prices being raised, and being raised by a huge margin. But consider bivio's position too. The market is contracting. Clubs are folding and costs of running a business are being spread across fewer clubs. I understand what's going on. If you're going to fault bivio for anything, fault them for doing a crappy marketing job. This change is being poorly implemented from a customer relations perspective and bivio has a customer relations nightmare to deal with. But don't fault them for providing poor service. Finally, ask yourself if you're not cutting off your nose to spite your face. When you look at the more costly alternatives and the difficulties of moving your accounting platform to an alternate system, what are you gaining? And what is it going to cost in terms of dollars, time and accuracy? John Munn Cross Country Investment Club Capitol Investors Investment Club Sandy Larson wrote: >This is a pretty bad case of customer service....cut...I am reccomending to our members we >discontinue Bivio based on the crap for service on this >issue. > > I will state again that another issue here is that I would never choose Accountsynch!!!! I am not a novice! I have been a club treasurer for the majority of 16 years. I wouldn't be the Treasurer if I did not enjoy doing the accounting part. I would never choose to pay for Accountsynch. Bivio has taken that choice away and has just told me that I am stupid and that that I will like it, no matter what. Strikes me that this is way too heavy handed!! If I had a decent choice I would be gone from Bivio!!! From: "John Munn" <jmunn1@nycap.rr.com> To: "The Club Cafe" <club_cafe@bivio.com> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 8:10 AM Subject: Re: club_cafe: Re: What happened to the $69 basic subscription? > Sandy... > > Like you, I don't appreciate the lack of notice and sharp and sudden price > increase, not the requirement to use Accountsync. However, I think you > and others who would characterize bivio's customer service as "crap" is > going too far. bivio has had the best customer service I've encountered > of any service business. Responses are fast; and few problems I've seen > posted take more than a day to resolve. And for the most part, > information is transparent. > > I understand the annoyance of prices being raised, and being raised by a > huge margin. But consider bivio's position too. The market is > contracting. Clubs are folding and costs of running a business are being > spread across fewer clubs. I understand what's going on. > > If you're going to fault bivio for anything, fault them for doing a crappy > marketing job. This change is being poorly implemented from a customer > relations perspective and bivio has a customer relations nightmare to deal > with. But don't fault them for providing poor service. > > Finally, ask yourself if you're not cutting off your nose to spite your > face. When you look at the more costly alternatives and the difficulties > of moving your accounting platform to an alternate system, what are you > gaining? And what is it going to cost in terms of dollars, time and > accuracy? > > John Munn > Cross Country Investment Club > Capitol Investors Investment Club > > > > > Sandy Larson wrote: > >>This is a pretty bad case of customer service....cut...I am reccomending >>to our members we >>discontinue Bivio based on the crap for service on this >>issue. >> > > > |
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