club_cafe: member pasted away
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club_cafe: member pasted away In a message dated 6/24/2006 5:47:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
rbw111@bivio.com writes:
We have a unqiue investment club --strictly very close Regardless of what your Partnership Agreement states, check with a local
attorney before doing anything. I suspect that in most states, this clause is
unenforceable and will be superceded by the terms of the decedent's will. In
other words, the decedent's share of the club will have to pass to his estate or
else the estate's beneficiaries (the estate's executor) could sue to recover the
assets.
Ira Smilovitz I agree with Ira that you need to check with an attorney. I am
not as convinced that the provision is unenforceable, if properly drawn. For
instance, if the agreement says that death of a member shall be considered a
notice of withdrawal, and that the deceased's value in the club shall be
forfeited, I would think that would determine the value of the interest, and
there would be nothing to pass on to the estate.
But, it is nothing to mess around with. Get some legal
advice.
Rip West Saint Paul, MN IraS1@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 6/24/2006 5:47:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, > rbw111@bivio.com writes: > We have > a unqiue investment club --strictly very close > friends. In our Partnership > agreeement we stated that if a > member pasted away their investment would be > transferred > equally among the other members. Of course when we > wrote > that rule we never dreamed one of us would die before > we > disbanded. Well it happen. How do I handle > this > transaction? > > > Regardless of what your Partnership Agreement states, check with a local > attorney before doing anything. I suspect that in most states, this clause is > unenforceable and will be superceded by the terms of the decedent's will. In > other words, the decedent's share of the club will have to pass to his estate or > else the estate's beneficiaries (the estate's executor) could sue to recover the > assets. > > Ira Smilovitz ------------------------------------------ We don't have to worry about being sued by his estate his wife is in the same club and wants to tranfers his investments to each member. I guess I could withdraw him from membership and cash him out then she can give the money back to be invested. It just creates taxes for her and the club. <<
I guess I could withdraw him from membership and cash him out then she can
give the money back to be invested. It just creates taxes for her and the
club.
>>
Well, no. It won't create taxes for the rest of the club.
It is a benefit to the remaining members, because they will receive the units at
the current unit value, and that will be the basis of those units. As for the
deceased, it doesn't create any taxes, since the estate receives a stepped up
basis for the units, which would be the value as of the date of
death.
I really hesitate to give advice without knowing how much
money is involved and without knowing the exact wording of your agreement, but,
if you are determined to go ahead with this, you could enter the transactions
without any money changing hands. Use the suspense account to withdraw the
units. Then use the suspense account to enter deposits from each of the
remaining members. Be sure to use the same date for all the
transactions.
Rip West Saint Paul, MN Our Partnership agreement states:
We are talking $600 dollars He will still get a K1 at the end of year and for their taxes? So transfer his units out and divide them among us. Rip West <ripwest@comcast.net> wrote:
Ok. I'm not an attorney, and you would do well to consult
one. My 'unlegal' opinion is that your partnership agreement constitutes a
buy-sell agreement between the partners, where the deceased partner has agreed
to sell his interest for zero dollars to the other partners.
It would be relatively easy to construct the transaction,
if the members were to receive the units in proportion to their ownership.
Doing it equally presents more of a problem. Here is one
way to accomplish what you want to do. I am going to assume a date of 6/10/06
for the withdrawal. There will be subsequent transactions which should be
entered 1 or 2 days later. Substitute your own dates.
On 6/10/06, enter a withdrawal for the deceased's account.
Enter a dollar amount withdrawal fee equal to his value in the club at that
date. This will result in a zero cash withdrawal for that member. As of 6/10/06
each remaining member's value will have increased proportionately to the
ownership percentages of those remaining members. This, however, is not what we
want, since we want each member's value to increase equally. To accomplish this,
we must make 2 additional entries. First, run a member's status report as of
6/11/06 to get the ownership percentages of each remaining member. Then multiply
each member's ownership percentage by the total value of the deceased's account
before the withdrawal. This is the amount for each member that you must enter as
a negative fee on 6/11/06. Be sure to enter it as a negative [minus] fee. Then
divide the amount of the deceased's value before withdrawal by the number of
remaining members. This is the amount for a payment to be entered for each
member on 6/12/06. Be sure to use the same bank account that was used for the
entry of the fee transaction. You can use the suspense account for both, if you
wish. Now run a member status report as of 6/12/06. If you compare this to a
status report run just before the withdrawal, you should see that each member's
value has increase by an amount equal to the deceased's value divided by the
number of members remaining. It is important for any comparisons that you might
make that you don't have any other transactions between the withdrawal date and
the payment date 2 days later.
Let me know if you have any questions. And remember: this
is not a legal opinion, it is just the thinking of an opinionated
accountant.
Rip West Saint Paul, MN Thanks I really appreciate the information. You are very helpful. Rip West <ripwest@comcast.net> wrote:
Rip West wrote: > Ok. I'm not an attorney, and you would do well to consult > one. My 'unlegal' opinion is that your partnership agreement constitutes a > buy-sell agreement between the partners, where the deceased partner has agreed > to sell his interest for zero dollars to the other partners. > > It would be relatively easy to construct the transaction, > if the members were to receive the units in proportion to their ownership. > > Doing it equally presents more of a problem. Here is one > way to accomplish what you want to do. I am going to assume a date of 6/10/06 > for the withdrawal. There will be subsequent transactions which should be > entered 1 or 2 days later. Substitute your own dates. > > On 6/10/06, enter a withdrawal for the deceased's account. > Enter a dollar amount withdrawal fee equal to his value in the club at that > date. This will result in a zero cash withdrawal for that member. As of 6/10/06 > each remaining member's value will have increased proportionately to the > ownership percentages of those remaining members. This, however, is not what we > want, since we want each member's value to increase equally. To accomplish this, > we must make 2 additional entries. First, run a member's status report as of > 6/11/06 to get the ownership percentages of each remaining member. Then multiply > each member's ownership percentage by the total value of the deceased's account > before the withdrawal. This is the amount for each member that you must enter as > a negative fee on 6/11/06. Be sure to enter it as a negative [minus] fee. Then > divide the amount of the deceased's value before withdrawal by the number of > remaining members. This is the amount for a payment to be entered for each > member on 6/12/06. Be sure to use the same bank account that was used for the > entry of the fee transaction. You can use the suspense account for both, if you > wish. Now run a member status report as of 6/12/06. If you compare this to a > status report run just before the withdrawal, you should see that each member's > value has increase by an amount equal to the deceased's value divided by the > number of members remaining. It is important for any comparisons that you might > make that you don't have any other transactions between the withdrawal date and > the payment date 2 days later. > > Let me know if you have any questions. And remember: this > is not a legal opinion, it is just the thinking of an opinionated > accountant. > > Rip West > Saint Paul, MN ============================= What about deceased's K-1 for Taxes will they be okay at the end of the year. <<
What about deceased's K-1 for Taxes will they be okay at the end of the
year.
>>
Yes.
Rip West Saint Paul, MN |
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