What are we doing wrong other than not buying the right
stock? Our club has been together for over 6 years and we
are still in the red (about $20.00 per member) We started
out with 21 members and now only have 9. Our dues are $25.00
a month and it takes us 5 months to get over $1000 to
purchase stock. Anything less seems futile due to the
broker's fees. We now meet every other month and most of our
meetings nothing is accomplished due to not having enough
money to puchase any stock. I frustrated and want ot
withdraw but my wife won't let me. Any advice?

Kevin Byrne wrote:

>What are we doing wrong ...cut...Any advice?
>
>
>
>
Kevin...

You've hit one nail on the head. Contributions are too low to retain
interest in purchasing stock. Given that your partnership is in the
red, you may want to examine why. Is there a problem with purchasing
when prices are high, a problem of not capturing gains? There's usually
lots of interest in purchasing stocks, much hesitation by the partners
to sell. And interest wains when purchasing is infrequent. Stocks sold
at a loss bring different emotional baggage into the decision making
process than stocks sold for a profit, and you may want to explore some
of these issues with your partners. If you're feeling like the
partnership is a futile exercise, then other partners surely feel the same.

Consider refocusing your emphasis away from purchasing to financial
study/analysis education and raising your monthly contributions or
allowing others to make larger contributions so you can accumulate cash
for investments more quickly. That will permit your partnership to make
more purchases and hopefully stimulate more interest. Failing that,
refocus on the social aspects and educational aspects that your
partnership can provide.

Also... every other month meetings, in my opinion, aren't frequent
enough to retain interest, friendships or connection to partnership
activities. I'd recommend more frequent meetings.

John Munn

Kevin,

So sorry to hear about your predictament. I have to agree with John that
your meetings are too infrequent and your club needs to focus on education.
I completely disagree with John on the amount of dues---and with YOU on it
being futile to buy less than $1000 at a time.

Crow River Investment Club has 9 members, too. We each put in $30 per month
(2 put in $50). We use www.firstrade.com as our broker which charges $6.95
per trade. We limit our purchases to a minimum of $300 to keep our trading
costs in the 2% (of total cost) range.

Our club started one month after 9/11. We literally started during the
worst 2 years in market history, and we were too conservative to really
partake in the short-lived revival thereafter. On top of that, we had a
fallout in 2003 of 4 members which caused us to sell some stock at the MOST
inopportune time, and our running 4-year return is STILL in the mid-single
digits--a solid 4-5 percentage points ABOVE the market, as a whole, for the
same time period! So, holding money is not necessary. In fact, I would
venture to say that your return has suffered because you didn't have that
money in the marketplace earning you a return!

No doubt this has been a tough market the last few years. It's enough to
depress anybody! <G> But the fact is, our club survives and thrives because
our main focus isn't on the crappy market. We focus on education. If you
don't believe me, take a look at our site! www.bivio.com/crowriver If
we're $20 short from being able to make a purchase this month, no matter.
We simply move on to our stock presentations, education presentations, or
other stuff we have planned. The club is a place for people to learn about
investing, get ideas for their personal portfolios, and have some fun. If
your club is not doing that, it's time to shake things up! And for that,
you're in luck! You've got a bunch of Bivio friends that can help you.

First things first. Do you have a stock picking strategy? If so, is it
NAIC? If so, are you actually following it? What stocks do you currently
own? What do your meetings consist of? Does someone present a new stock at
every meeting? Do you provide an education segment?

We need to start by proving that your losses are not as dramatic as they
seem with the market hand we've been dealt. That would be the first order
of business.

Lynn Ostrem, President
garbagecop@foxinternet.net
Crow River Investment Club
www.bivio.com/crowriver

Kevin Byrne writes:
> What are we doing wrong other than not buying the right
> stock?

A couple of things that you might consider that will improve your
return:

* Slow down: Invest quarterly, not monthly. This will reduce
  transaction costs, which are on the scale of $10/member-year, if you
  invest monthly, and $2.50/member-year, if you invest quarterly.

* Reduce risk: Consider covered-call options. I was against all
  options before I read Mark Wolfinger's, simple little book. To
  learn more, visit http://www.bivio.com/know_your_options/mail

* Play your positions: I'm guessing you play hockey. Play a passing
  game, not a skating game. I'm a lousy skater. My 11-year-old can
  outskate me. However, I can still beat him (ssssh! ;-), because I
  keep my head up, and pass to the open player. Each member should
  take a sector, and study it. Check-in with (pass to) each other
  every few weeks on your bivio.com message board, and meet quarterly
  after your stocks' financials are out to make the collective
  decision as to what to buy. Don't leave the meeting until you score
  your goals, that is, what stocks to sell and what stocks to buy.
  There *has* to be change every quarter. If there isn't, you are
  playing with your heads down, and you're gonna lose.

That last bit is the hardest bit, but is the most important reason to
be in a club. The first two points are risk mitigation techniques.
They can't increase your return over say buying SPY. You won't beat
the S&P by doing nothing. The last point is the something you need to
do, and it means everybody has to spend a couple of hours every three
months. Collectively, that's a week's worth of research for the club,
which means that everybody benefits. If someone is contributing, fire
them, and tell them to put their money in SPY. They are wasting your
time and and theirs by being a wannabe investor.

Don't feel bad. Most clubs do much worse than yours. Since 2001,
bivio's clubs have lost about 25% of their capital. bivio's Club
Index tells you that, and it's right on our home page for a reason. I
believe the numbers will guide me to make the right decisions.
Ruthlessly follow the numbers, not your emotions, and you'll be a
better investor than 99% of the investors out there.

Cheers,
Rob

Disclaimer: These are my personal opinions, not those of bivio,
Inc. or its affiliates.

Rob Nagler wrote:
> Kevin Byrne writes:
> > What are we doing wrong other than not buying the right
> > stock?
>
> A couple of things that you might consider that will improve your
> return:
>
> * Slow down: Invest quarterly, not monthly. This will reduce
> transaction costs, which are on the scale of $10/member-year, if you
> invest monthly, and $2.50/member-year, if you invest quarterly.
>
> * Reduce risk: Consider covered-call options. I was against all
> options before I read Mark Wolfinger's, simple little book. To
> learn more, visit http://www.bivio.com/know_your_options/mail
>
> * Play your positions: I'm guessing you play hockey. Play a passing
> game, not a skating game. I'm a lousy skater. My 11-year-old can
> outskate me. However, I can still beat him (ssssh! ;-), because I
> keep my head up, and pass to the open player. Each member should
> take a sector, and study it. Check-in with (pass to) each other
> every few weeks on your bivio.com message board, and meet quarterly
> after your stocks' financials are out to make the collective
> decision as to what to buy. Don't leave the meeting until you score
> your goals, that is, what stocks to sell and what stocks to buy.
> There *has* to be change every quarter. If there isn't, you are
> playing with your heads down, and you're gonna lose.
>
> That last bit is the hardest bit, but is the most important reason to
> be in a club. The first two points are risk mitigation techniques.
> They can't increase your return over say buying SPY. You won't beat
> the S&P by doing nothing. The last point is the something you need to
> do, and it means everybody has to spend a couple of hours every three
> months. Collectively, that's a week's worth of research for the club,
> which means that everybody benefits. If someone is contributing, fire
> them, and tell them to put their money in SPY. They are wasting your
> time and and theirs by being a wannabe investor.
>
> Don't feel bad. Most clubs do much worse than yours. Since 2001,
> bivio's clubs have lost about 25% of their capital. bivio's Club
> Index tells you that, and it's right on our home page for a reason. I
> believe the numbers will guide me to make the right decisions.
> Ruthlessly follow the numbers, not your emotions, and you'll be a
> better investor than 99% of the investors out there.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
>
> Disclaimer: These are my personal opinions, not those of bivio,
> Inc. or its affiliates.

¿"If someone is contributing, fire
> them, and tell them to put their money in SPY." I am guessing you left out an n't. Its small, but powerful. Otherwise thats a tough penalty for contributing.

Gary 09 McDonald writes:
> "If someone is contributing, fire them, and tell them to put their
> money in SPY." I am guessing you left out an n't. Its small, but
> powerful. Otherwise thats a tough penalty for contributing.

Right you are, Gary. Put an "ain't" in place of "is". :-)

Thanks for pointing it out.

Rob

Rob Nagler wrote:
>> Don't feel bad. Most clubs do much worse than yours. Since 2001,
> bivio's clubs have lost about 25% of their capital. bivio's Club
> Index tells you that, and it's right on our home page for a reason. I
> believe the numbers will guide me to make the right decisions.
> Ruthlessly follow the numbers, not your emotions, and you'll be a
> better investor than 99% of the investors out there.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob
>

Rob,

Are most of the clubs really down by 25%?????? Do you know
what the average AIRR is for the bivio clubs?

Debi

Deborah J. Rollins-Thorne writes:
> Are most of the clubs really down by 25%?????? Do you know
> what the average AIRR is for the bivio clubs?

We don't compute this. AIRR is dependent on capital flows. However,
the stocks held aren't. This is why the Club Index is based on the
stocks held, not the percentage ownership.

A better summary is: The Club Index indicates that the most popular
stocks owned by clubs are down by 25% since 2001.

Clubs have been doing better lately. You can play around with the
AIRR for the Club Index at this page:

http://www.bivio.com/club_index/accounting/reports/benchmark

You can see that the AIRR for the Club Index is -5.3% from 12/31/00 to
4/25/06 wherease the equivalent investment in VFNIX would have yielded
only 1.4%. However, if you look at the trailing twelve months, you'll
see that the Club Index AIRR was 3.8%. The VFINX (S&P) AIRR over the
same period was 14.5%.

It's hard to beat the S&P.

Rob

>
> It's hard to beat the S&P.
>
> Rob
It may be hard, but it's not impossible. My club, Lunch
Money Investment Club (LMIC) has beaten VTSMX and VFINX for
about 15 straight 12-month periods. Check out our website
here on Bivio for more details. It took us about one year to
do it. We are celebrating our 3rd anniversary.

We started out investing $300 per month. We use BuyandHold
as our broker, where we pay $6.99 every month but that
includes up to two trades. Additional trades are only $2.99
each. Our average transactions cost was down to about $3.15
when I stopped keeping track.

Buying at the wrong (too high) price is one of the biggest
mistakes one can make, IMHO.

There are many different investing methodologies. Which one
has your club chosen? Trading, long-term, short-term,
options, puts/calls, growth, value, etc. We follow Better
Investing (www.betterinvesting.org).

Bob Mann
Vice-President LMIC

Robert Mann writes:
> It may be hard, but it's not impossible. My club, Lunch
> Money Investment Club (LMIC) has beaten VTSMX and VFINX for
> about 15 straight 12-month periods. Check out our website
> here on Bivio for more details. It took us about one year to
> do it. We are celebrating our 3rd anniversary.

Congratulations! I'll vouch for the fact you are beating the S&P.

It's not impossible, it's hard. It would be great if you shared
some of your stocks on this board, and why you chose them.

Rob

Here is a list of every stock we have ever purchased, FWIW:

ARO, ACS, APA, BBBY, CAKE, CHD, CREE, EBAY, EDMC, ERTS,
ESRX, FAC, FDC, FISV, HDI, KSS, LLL, LEN, LINC, LOW, MAN,
CBH, PFE, RCI, RYAAY, SFCC, SDS, SNV, TEVA, UHS, ZMH. Our
current holdins can be seen on our website.

Timing and luck have played a part. Two or three stocks
were purchased at good prices, which was verified when they
were bought out at a higher price and went private. Not all
stocks have been winners but the exceptional growers have
more than made up for any losses.

Our specific guidelines for buying stocks can be found on
our web site under education. Look for the Lemmings Guides.
In general, we look for companies with a proven track record
(5 or more years) of sales and earnings growth at 13% or
higher. Then, we only buy the stock when it is reasonably
priced. This doesn't mean that the price won't fall after
we purchase it! We're not looking to buy at the absolute
bottom, just at a reasonable price. RYAAY was one of our
first purchases. We had a 27% loss for almost a year. Now,
we have an annualized gain of 24%. I'll be happy to answer
any other questions here, on I-Club-List, or BI Forum on
Compuserve.

Bob Mann
LMIC Vice-President

We are up 33% for the year. Our money makers were SWKS,
MEE, ATML, OMCL, KSS, HYGS, and QTWW.

QTWW still has some run in it left, but bit speculative in
nature in that it is a good fuel cell car play.

I think KSS goes to $70 and still attractive at $58. We have
a stop in at $56 since our cost basis was $47 from Q4 2005.

We look for business sectors positioned for growth over the
next 6 months. When the stocks finnally hit their growth
spurts, we sell close to the 52 high or set stops. We use
Value Line and Fidelity research, and Kramer Mad Money for
ideas.

Thanks,

MBAIC
Our methods are not published on our site and we have been
together for 3 years now with.

Rob Nagler wrote:
> Deborah J. Rollins-Thorne writes:
> > Are most of the clubs really down by 25%?????? Do you know
> > what the average AIRR is for the bivio clubs?
>
> We don't compute this. AIRR is dependent on capital flows. However,
> the stocks held aren't. This is why the Club Index is based on the
> stocks held, not the percentage ownership.
>
> A better summary is: The Club Index indicates that the most popular
> stocks owned by clubs are down by 25% since 2001.
>
> Clubs have been doing better lately. You can play around with the
> AIRR for the Club Index at this page:
>
> http://www.bivio.com/club_index/accounting/reports/benchmark
>
> You can see that the AIRR for the Club Index is -5.3% from 12/31/00 to
> 4/25/06 wherease the equivalent investment in VFNIX would have yielded
> only 1.4%. However, if you look at the trailing twelve months, you'll
> see that the Club Index AIRR was 3.8%. The VFINX (S&P) AIRR over the
> same period was 14.5%.
>
> It's hard to beat the S&P.
>
> Rob

If i had idle cash at the moment i would give DIS, GE, MSFT,
and the natural gas utilities a hard look. Making money is
more to me about where a company/commodity is going; not
where it has been.

Tim

Timothy Mansfield wrote:
> We are up 33% for the year. Our money makers were SWKS,
> MEE, ATML, OMCL, KSS, HYGS, and QTWW.
>
> QTWW still has some run in it left, but bit speculative in
> nature in that it is a good fuel cell car play.
>
> I think KSS goes to $70 and still attractive at $58. We have
> a stop in at $56 since our cost basis was $47 from Q4 2005.
>
> We look for business sectors positioned for growth over the
> next 6 months. When the stocks finnally hit their growth
> spurts, we sell close to the 52 high or set stops. We use
> Value Line and Fidelity research, and Kramer Mad Money for
> ideas.
>
> Thanks,
>
> MBAIC
> Our methods are not published on our site and we have been
> together for 3 years now with.
>
> Rob Nagler wrote:
> > Deborah J. Rollins-Thorne writes:
> > > Are most of the clubs really down by 25%?????? Do you know
> > > what the average AIRR is for the bivio clubs?
> >
> > We don't compute this. AIRR is dependent on capital flows. However,
> > the stocks held aren't. This is why the Club Index is based on the
> > stocks held, not the percentage ownership.
> >
> > A better summary is: The Club Index indicates that the most popular
> > stocks owned by clubs are down by 25% since 2001.
> >
> > Clubs have been doing better lately. You can play around with the
> > AIRR for the Club Index at this page:
> >
> > http://www.bivio.com/club_index/accounting/reports/benchmark
> >
> > You can see that the AIRR for the Club Index is -5.3% from 12/31/00 to
> > 4/25/06 wherease the equivalent investment in VFNIX would have yielded
> > only 1.4%. However, if you look at the trailing twelve months, you'll
> > see that the Club Index AIRR was 3.8%. The VFINX (S&P) AIRR over the
> > same period was 14.5%.
> >
> > It's hard to beat the S&P.
> >
> > Rob