has bivio been enabled to account for short sales yet? Or
perhaps options? Could you please give me a timeline as too
when this is expected to be enabled?
thanks,
wes

Wes,

We still don't support short sales or options. We try to balance
features vs. benefits. Short sales and options are difficult to
implement correctly. Few clubs have expressed interest in this
feature, however.

Thanks for the feedback,
Rob

Thanks for the prompt response. Do you happen to know any
type of software that does handle short sells and options?
thanks,
wes

Rob Nagler wrote:
> Wes,
>
> We still don't support short sales or options. We try to balance
> features vs. benefits. Short sales and options are difficult to
> implement correctly. Few clubs have expressed interest in this
> feature, however.
>
> Thanks for the feedback,
> Rob

Rob,
Selling covered calls is a very effective way of both adding
income and reducing portfolio risk. Although options
trading (and short-selling) are generally quite risky and
are for more sophisticated investors, covered calls are
relatively easy to understand and again, tend to reduce
risk. My club intends to go forward with this strategy in
the very near future, even though Bivio doesn't
automatically make the appropriate accounting entries, which
admittedly can be difficult. Our Treasurer will have a bit
more work to do, but we think it's worth the effort!
Regards,
Rich Hall

Rob Nagler wrote:
> Wes,
>
> We still don't support short sales or options. We try to balance
> features vs. benefits. Short sales and options are difficult to
> implement correctly. Few clubs have expressed interest in this
> feature, however.
>
> Thanks for the feedback,
> Rob

Richard M. Hall writes:
> Selling covered calls is a very effective way of both adding
> income and reducing portfolio risk. Although options
> trading (and short-selling) are generally quite risky and
> are for more sophisticated investors, covered calls are
> relatively easy to understand and again, tend to reduce
> risk.

We have bumped up the priority due to increased interest. I agree
that short sales and options are useful tools. We just have to go
with the priorities as the users present them.

Cheers,
Rob

Dear Rob,
Any word on handling shorts? Our brokerage account is now
set up for covered calls, and we have lots of opportunities,
but I want to make sure I can handle the accounting OK.
Thanks!
-Rich

Rob Nagler wrote:
> Richard M. Hall writes:
> > Selling covered calls is a very effective way of both adding
> > income and reducing portfolio risk. Although options
> > trading (and short-selling) are generally quite risky and
> > are for more sophisticated investors, covered calls are
> > relatively easy to understand and again, tend to reduce
> > risk.
>
> We have bumped up the priority due to increased interest. I agree
> that short sales and options are useful tools. We just have to go
> with the priorities as the users present them.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob

Richard M. Hall writes:
> Any word on handling shorts? Our brokerage account is now
> set up for covered calls, and we have lots of opportunities,
> but I want to make sure I can handle the accounting OK.

Shorts are half working. We've been testing internally with
AccountSync. We hope to have shorts completely working within a few
weeks.

It turns out that options are more complex than we anticipated. :-(
There are quite a few details. The other problem is the data feed,
which is costly and would require us to expand our database
significantly. These factors have halted development. It's hard to
justify the cost vs. the benefit. Few clubs trade options.

We are also working on too many projects at once, but that's nothing
new.

Cheers,
Rob

Rob,
Are shorts working yet?
Thanks!
Rich Hall


Rob Nagler wrote:
> Richard M. Hall writes:
> > Any word on handling shorts? Our brokerage account is now
> > set up for covered calls, and we have lots of opportunities,
> > but I want to make sure I can handle the accounting OK.
>
> Shorts are half working. We've been testing internally with
> AccountSync. We hope to have shorts completely working within a few
> weeks.
>
> It turns out that options are more complex than we anticipated. :-(
> There are quite a few details. The other problem is the data feed,
> which is costly and would require us to expand our database
> significantly. These factors have halted development. It's hard to
> justify the cost vs. the benefit. Few clubs trade options.
>
> We are also working on too many projects at once, but that's nothing
> new.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob

Richard M. Hall writes:
> Are shorts working yet?

Unfortunately, not. For more details, see:

http://www.bivio.com/club_cafe/mail-msg?t=37085000003

Apologies,
Rob

Rob,
It's been more than a year since your last message, "...We
have bumped up the priority due to increased interest. I
agree that short sales and options are useful tools. We
just have to go with the priorities as the users present
them."

Please can you let us know when Bivio might be able to
handle the accounting for these?

Our club has decided to go ahead and begin selling covered
calls. In the past month or so, we've done two transactions
that increased our cash by $200, providing a cash
return-on-cash invested against the underlying securities of
about 5% over a 3-month period. Annualized, this nets out
to nearly 20% ROI ! - Not bad in this market!

Richard M. Hall wrote:
> Dear Rob,
> Any word on handling shorts? Our brokerage account is now
> set up for covered calls, and we have lots of opportunities,
> but I want to make sure I can handle the accounting OK.
> Thanks!
> -Rich
>
> Rob Nagler wrote:
> > Richard M. Hall writes:
> > > Selling covered calls is a very effective way of both adding
> > > income and reducing portfolio risk. Although options
> > > trading (and short-selling) are generally quite risky and
> > > are for more sophisticated investors, covered calls are
> > > relatively easy to understand and again, tend to reduce
> > > risk.
> >
> > We have bumped up the priority due to increased interest. I agree
> > that short sales and options are useful tools. We just have to go
> > with the priorities as the users present them.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Rob

Richard M. Hall writes:
> It's been more than a year since your last message, "...We
> have bumped up the priority due to increased interest. I
> agree that short sales and options are useful tools. We
> just have to go with the priorities as the users present
> them."
>
> Please can you let us know when Bivio might be able to
> handle the accounting for these?

We found out it is more complicated than we originally thought. We've
got half an implementation, and haven't been able to justify the work
at this time.

Now that tax season is winding down, we'll have another go at it.
I can't promise a date, though.

Rob

Can anybody please explain the technical aspects of short
sells/covered? And, can you please include examples?

I'm not asking for opinions about specific stocks, or any
investing advice, and promise to "hold harmless" (a legal
term that I don't even fully understand) anyone offering a
reply :-)

Seriously, please give us an example of the how and the why
of such a transaction (make up a company and symbol).

Appriciation in advance,
Elizabeth

Elizabeth Sorbet wrote:
> Can anybody please explain the technical aspects of short
> sells/covered? And, can you please include examples?
>
> I'm not asking for opinions about specific stocks, or any
> investing advice, and promise to "hold harmless" (a legal
> term that I don't even fully understand) anyone offering a
> reply :-)
>
> Seriously, please give us an example of the how and the why
> of such a transaction (make up a company and symbol).
>
> Appriciation in advance,
> Elizabeth

checkout my investment clubs website
www.azoneinvestment.com

I was curious as to your reasoning for not supporting
options.
Our club is VERY interested in options. Covered calls are
very common and even traded in IRA accounts. Do you see
options in your future??
Steve


ob Nagler wrote:
> Wes,
>
> We still don't support short sales or options. We try to balance
> features vs. benefits. Short sales and options are difficult to
> implement correctly. Few clubs have expressed interest in this
> feature, however.
>
> Thanks for the feedback,
> Rob

Steve Paxson writes:
> I was curious as to your reasoning for not supporting
> options.
> Our club is VERY interested in options. Covered calls are
> very common and even traded in IRA accounts. Do you see
> options in your future??

Very few clubs trade options. The software involved to track the tax
consequences is very complex. We didn't realize this until we started
implementing it. The data feeds are also expensive and much larger
than stock quotes. Although this isn't necessary, it's probably
important as many people who trade options, trade them frequently.
All of this means work/time/money for us for a very small pay off. As
far as we can tell, most clubs that trade options are unwilling to put
up with a significant increase in yearly fees to offset our costs.

You can enter covered calls (the most common use of options) in
bivio. Here's a brief summary of how to do it from our Trez Talk
archives:

    IRS Pub #550 details the proper treatment of covered calls. The
    writer of a covered call will end up with one of three possible
    situations. The result of these 3 situations is that, while the
    writer of the call receives payment for the call at the time of the
    sale, there is no way to know the proper treatment until the option
    is either bought back, is exercised, or expires.

    According to Pub #550...

    1. if you buy back the call, you should report the difference between
    the amount you pay and the premium you received for the call as a
    short term capital gain or loss.

    2. if the option expires, report the premium you received as a short
    term capital gain.

    3. if the option is exercised, increase your amount realized on sale
    of the stock by the premium you received for the call.

    the interim period between the date the option is sold and the date
    either #1, 2, or 3 above is completed.

Sorry for this missing feature. We try our best, but given the size
of the market we would be wasting valuable resources without the
possibility of getting a return on our investment.

Rob