How do I setup accountsync with Schwab now that the move has happened from TDAmeritrade?
On May 25, 2023, at 8:21 PM, Carole Jansen via bivio.com <user*8441200001@bivio.com> wrote:
Bivio does AccountSync with Fidelity. My club has been with Fidelity for several years now and we have been very happy with them. We have both an investment account and a cash account at Fidelity, so we no longer have a separate bank account. Checks can be deposited using the Fidelity App, so I (I am the treasurer) don't have to go anywhere to deposit our checks. We have never explored direct deposit by the partners into the cash account, so I can't speak to that.
I also like their robust research capabilities. I also have my personal investment accounts there and a cash account.
Does Bivio accountsync with Fidelity? I think I will need to move our funds to Fidelity from TDAmeritrade because we don't have a bank account and Schwab does not allow you to disburse funds to anyone or any accounts that doesn't have the club name attached to it.
Can anyone advise what they were asked for to open their clubs bank account and with what bank? Did all of the partners need to sign something in order to make monthly contributions into the bank account?
No, and it's not a bivio limitation. Short-year returns prepared on the previous year's forms must be paper filed. The IRS doesn't have the software systems to process these returns until the annual cutover in December-January.
Yes, the IRS *might* care. I wouldn't be surprised if, in your case, the IRS intake personnel entered the return as one for the calendar year printed in the upper right of the 1065 form rather than the fiscal year filled in underneath the title of the form before proposing the penalty. When you provided proof of mailing they realized the error.
BTW, the late filing penalty has increased to $220/month/partner - a little more incentive to do things correctly - including sending the return by certified mail.
Note, that the IRS might care about the 3 month deadline. And if they do, it's a substantial penalty. I had filed within 3 months, but the IRS sent a late filing notice with a large penalty. The notice says the penalty is $210/partner per month up to one year per IRC section 6698. Luckily, I had my receipt indicating when I mailed in the return and they abated the penalty.
Thanks Ira. My mistake was to close down without considering the dividends we'd receive after all assets were distributed. After I gave the broker instructions on Saturday to transfer assets (which would happen on Monday), I realized that additional dividends would be received and there would be no partners on the books to receive them. Rather than reverse all withdrawals, post the income and re-enter the withdrawals, I decided to just reverse mine and leave well enough alone and then settle up off the books.
This was the first time I distributed stock in a withdrawal and while it is easy and comprehensible in retrospect, it was intimidating at the time. I want to emphasize that bivio was a great help in resolving the ex-dividend income.
The plan for CRIG is to transfer stocks with Capital gains to members by percentage ownership in club in Aug and sell the losers leaving the cash in brokerage account until mid Dec. This will allow any dividends to be at brokerage by end of 2023. Bivio is paid until 3/9/2024 allowing CRIG to mark 2023 returns final.
My concern is Ira's ststement that full withdrawal uses cost basis not club cost therefore Club cannot keep cash unless I transfer it to our Credit Union account and close that in Dec
I have withdrawn many cash members during our 27 years transfering stock to last 4 members. Yes it is work for Treasurer. I closed a Club after 4 years in 2002 that did not have large gains and we sold everything. Easier.
Unfortunately Club is now scheduled to transfer from TD to Schwab during Nov long weekend update but CRIG commitee will meet at local Schwab /TD branch this summer after a financial planner explains tax advantages at June meeting.
I wasn't going to worry about the 3 month time line because filing a return is done for information purposes, and not to collect revenue. Investment clubs get their tax information sent to them on the 1099 forms after the year ends and filing before the year's out means there's a good chance that we miss something and make an error that needs to be corrected through an amended return. I doubt the IRS would fault anyone for not following the 3 month rule so I'm going to file electronically next year when bivio releases the 2023 software and hope that this issue is ignored. And who's to say when the partnership ceases to exist? I've sent out some inquiries to friends to see if they'd like to take it over, so right now, it's a shell hoping to be taken over and filled by the new and younger hermit crabs.
BTW.... Because of the size of our portfolio there was always some stock that was trading ex-dividend, and beware that any cash sitting in the broker's cash account accrues interest. I forgot about the ex-dividends which would be received after the partners were off the books. So after I withdrew my partners and transferred stock and cash to close out their accounts, they were owed money from the stocks that were ex-dividend. In my case, I transferred all the stock and cash out of the broker account to all partners. Then I realized I didn't account for dividends that would be received in the future, and didn't want to re-do all the bivio transactions because I felt that could become messy since all the stock and cash was transferred from the partnership's account to the partners. So rather than reversing the withdrawals for everyone, I just reversed my own and did the following:
The valuation date for all partners but me was a Friday.
All partners but me were withdrawn on Saturday using Friday's closing prices.
All income that was to be received in the future (4 stocks and money market interest) were posted and entered into the Suspense account as if they were received on Sunday. Since I was the last partner, all this income became "mine" according to bivio and would be added as cash to my payout. But recall that this cash was not yet received... it would be received by the broker in the future.
I withdrew myself on Monday using Sunday's valuation. This valuation would include the total value of the partnership including the dividends and interest posted to the Suspense account on Sunday, and the valuation wold use Friday's closing stock prices.
I transferred all the stocks and cash from the broker to my personal account.
When the dividends were received by the broker and bivio recognized them, I deleted the transaction automated transaction since the receipt of the dividends was previously recorded in bivio's Suspense account. I then transferred the dividend and interest income from the broker to my personal account.
At the end of the year, bivio will allocate the dividend income to me since it was received after all the other partners were off the books. Therefore, the tax liability will be mine to include on my state and federal return.
I still need to reimburse my partners for their share of the dividends and that's easy. A member status report on the date the partners were cashed out (or maybe the day before) tells you how much of the partnership each partner owns. So I subtracted 22% (for the federal and state taxes I will pay on the dividends) and multiplied the result by each partner's fractional ownership to figure out how much I need to reimburse each partner. It may not be exact, but it will be close enough.
It sounds complicated, but if you know the ex-dividends ahead of time, you can add them into the books beforehand. As you pay people out you won't have enough cash to fully pay everyone, and can only do that after all the ex-dividends are received.
I have kept your email from the cafe to help when I bite the bullet and try to get going on this, of course once we vote on everything. One question I did have is in regards to this part of your email:
"I had questions and bivio's support guided me through this process. One thing I did prior to withdrawing everyone was to renew our annual bivio subscription through next year so I could do the 2023 tax return next year. By paying now before all partners were withdrawn, the cost would be shared by all partners and it would be prepaid. This is not a difficult process, but it does take some thought."
I thought that you had to file your last club tax return within 3 months of disbanding, is that not a thing anymore? TIA
It's not a difficult task to withdraw partners. Sell stocks that are losers, keep the winners. This will provide a pool of cash to use to make all the partners whole after allocating the stock shares according to each partner's percentage of ownership. bivio's withdrawal screen uses a valuation date and as you apportion shares to partners according to their percentage of ownership, the software uses the partnership's available cash to make up the difference. Withdraw partners over a weekend so that there are no financial transaction hitting the accounts. My approach was to withdraw partners on a Saturday using Friday's valuation date. As the last individual, I didn't withdraw myself until Monday because I used Sunday to post any dividends or other incomes that will be received after everyone else had withdrawn. There was no date in a calendar when some stock was not trading ex-dividend. So these dividends and income received after all the other partners were withdrawn on Saturday were posted into the Suspense account with the Sunday date so as to not alter their withdrawals. They were already off the books, but they are owed the income. As the last partner, I withdrew myself on Monday, using Sunday valuation date, which would incorporate the Friday closing prices and any income (interest/dividends received after my Monday withdrawal when all partners would otherwise be off the books. As the last partner, I received all the dividend income that the partnership received after Friday; it will be included on my own personal tax return and I will reimburse my other partners (who withdrew on Friday) for their share of this income.
I had questions and bivio's support guided me through this process. One thing I did prior to withdrawing everyone was to renew our annual bivio subscription through next year so I could do the 2023 tax return next year. By paying now before all partners were withdrawn, the cost would be shared by all partners and it would be prepaid. This is not a difficult process, but it does take some thought.
To facilitate the stock transfers, all partners opened a brokerage account with the club's broker and I directed the broker to transfer shares and cash between the accounts. The bank account's cash was also owed to me for my withdrawal as the last partner. We will keep the broker account open with a zero balance for a month or two to make sure all income is received. If I forgot any income, it will be easy enough to delete my withdrawal, post the new income with the Sunday posting date, re-enter my withdrawal and then transfer the income from the broker to my personal account. As an aside, I failed to consider four stocks that were trading ex-dividend and a small money market interest posting when I initially withdrew us all and this problem was resolved by the work around described above.
Judith, I talked to Bivio they will help but no, they will not do it for you, there is a fee. I was thinking of talking to my tax person and seeing what they said. It would be worth paying someone to make sure it was done correctly and fairly.
Does Bivio do this for you (for a fee) or would a tax person do this for us (for a fee) Fear of doing it wrong! We have a lot of capital gains and member are all elderly and worried about the taxes.
Bivio does AccountSync with Fidelity. My club
has been with Fidelity for several years now and we have
been very happy with them. We have both an investment
account and a cash account at Fidelity, so we no longer have
a separate bank account. Checks can be deposited using the
Fidelity App, so I (I am the treasurer) don't have to go
anywhere to deposit our checks. We have never explored
direct deposit by the partners into the cash account, so I
can't speak to that.
I also like their robust research
capabilities. I also have my personal investment accounts
there and a cash account.
Does Bivio accountsync with Fidelity? I
think I will need to move our funds to Fidelity from
TDAmeritrade because we don't have a bank account and
Schwab does not allow you to disburse funds to anyone
or any accounts that doesn't have the club name
attached to it.
Can anyone advise what they were asked
for to open their clubs bank account and with what
bank? Did all of the partners need to sign something
in order to make monthly contributions into the bank
account?
No, and it's not
a bivio limitation. Short-year returns
prepared on the previous year's forms must
be paper filed. The IRS doesn't have the
software systems to process these returns
until the annual cutover in
December-January.
Yes, the IRS
*might* care. I wouldn't be
surprised if, in your case, the IRS
intake personnel entered the return
as one for the calendar year printed
in the upper right of the 1065 form
rather than the fiscal year filled
in underneath the title of the form
before proposing the penalty. When
you provided proof of mailing they
realized the error.
BTW, the
late filing penalty has increased to
$220/month/partner - a little more
incentive to do things correctly -
including sending the return by
certified mail.
Note, that the
IRS might care about the 3 month
deadline. And if they do, it's a
substantial penalty. I had
filed within 3 months, but the
IRS sent a late filing notice
with a large penalty. The notice
says the penalty is $210/partner
per month up to one year per IRC
section 6698. Luckily, I had my
receipt indicating when I mailed
in the return and they abated
the penalty.
Thanks Ira. My
mistake was to close
down without
considering the
dividends we'd
receive after all
assets were
distributed. After
I gave the broker
instructions on
Saturday to transfer
assets (which would
happen on Monday), I
realized that
additional dividends
would be received
and there would be
no partners on the
books to receive
them. Rather than
reverse all
withdrawals, post
the income and
re-enter the
withdrawals, I
decided to just
reverse mine and
leave well enough
alone and then
settle up off the
books.
This was the
first time I
distributed stock in
a withdrawal and
while it is easy and
comprehensible in
retrospect, it was
intimidating at the
time. I want to
emphasize that bivio
was a great help in
resolving the
ex-dividend income.
The
plan for CRIG is
to transfer stocks
with Capital gains
to members by
percentage
ownership in club
in Aug and sell
the losers leaving
the cash in
brokerage account
until mid Dec.
This will allow
any dividends to
be at brokerage by
end of 2023. Bivio
is paid until
3/9/2024 allowing
CRIG to mark 2023
returns final.
My
concern is Ira's
ststement that
full withdrawal
uses cost basis
not club cost
therefore Club
cannot keep cash
unless I
transfer it to
our Credit Union
account and
close that in
Dec
I have withdrawn
many cash
members during
our 27 years
transfering
stock to last 4
members. Yes it
is work for
Treasurer. I
closed a Club
after 4 years in
2002 that did
not have large
gains and we
sold everything.
Easier.
Unfortunately
Club is now
scheduled to
transfer from
TD to Schwab
during Nov
long weekend
update but
CRIG commitee
will meet at
local Schwab
/TD branch
this summer
after a
financial
planner
explains tax
advantages at
June meeting.
I wasn't
going to worry
about the 3
month time
line because
filing a
return is done
for
information
purposes, and
not to collect
revenue.
Investment
clubs get
their tax
information
sent to them
on the 1099
forms after
the year ends
and filing
before the
year's out
means there's
a good chance
that we miss
something and
make an error
that needs to
be corrected
through an
amended
return. I
doubt the IRS
would fault
anyone for not
following the
3 month rule
so I'm going
to file
electronically
next year when
bivio releases
the 2023
software and
hope that this
issue is
ignored. And
who's to say
when the
partnership
ceases to
exist? I've
sent out some
inquiries to
friends to see
if they'd like
to take it
over, so right
now, it's a
shell hoping
to be taken
over and
filled by the
new and
younger hermit
crabs.
BTW....
Because of the
size of our
portfolio
there was
always some
stock that was
trading
ex-dividend,
and beware
that any cash
sitting in the
broker's cash
account
accrues
interest. I
forgot about
the
ex-dividends
which would be
received after
the partners
were off the
books. So
after I
withdrew my
partners and
transferred
stock and cash
to close out
their
accounts, they
were owed
money from the
stocks that
were
ex-dividend.
In my case, I
transferred
all the stock
and cash out
of the broker
account to all
partners. Then
I realized I
didn't account
for dividends
that would be
received in
the future,
and didn't
want to re-do
all the bivio
transactions
because I felt
that could
become messy
since all the
stock and cash
was
transferred
from the
partnership's
account to the
partners. So
rather than
reversing the
withdrawals
for everyone,
I just
reversed my
own and did
the following:
The
valuation date
for all
partners but
me was a
Friday.
All
partners but
me were
withdrawn on
Saturday using
Friday's
closing
prices.
All
income that
was to be
received in
the future (4
stocks and
money market
interest) were
posted and
entered into
the Suspense
account as if
they were
received on
Sunday. Since
I was the last
partner, all
this income
became "mine"
according to
bivio and
would be added
as cash to my
payout. But
recall that
this cash was
not yet
received... it
would be
received by
the broker in
the future.
I
withdrew
myself on
Monday using
Sunday's
valuation.
This valuation
would include
the total
value of the
partnership
including the
dividends and
interest
posted to the
Suspense
account on
Sunday, and
the valuation
wold use
Friday's
closing stock
prices.
I
transferred
all the stocks
and cash from
the broker to
my personal
account.
When the
dividends were
received by
the broker and
bivio
recognized
them, I
deleted the
transaction
automated
transaction
since the
receipt of the
dividends was
previously
recorded in
bivio's
Suspense
account. I
then
transferred
the dividend
and interest
income from
the broker to
my personal
account.
At the
end of the
year, bivio
will allocate
the dividend
income to me
since it was
received after
all the other
partners were
off the books.
Therefore, the
tax liability
will be mine
to include on
my state and
federal
return.
I still
need to
reimburse my
partners for
their share of
the dividends
and that's
easy. A member
status report
on the date
the partners
were cashed
out (or maybe
the day
before) tells
you how much
of the
partnership
each partner
owns. So I
subtracted 22%
(for the
federal and
state taxes I
will pay on
the dividends)
and multiplied
the result by
each partner's
fractional
ownership to
figure out how
much I need to
reimburse each
partner. It
may not be
exact, but it
will be close
enough.
It sounds
complicated,
but if you
know the
ex-dividends
ahead of time,
you can add
them into the
books
beforehand. As
you pay people
out you won't
have enough
cash to fully
pay everyone,
and can only
do that after
all the
ex-dividends
are received.
I
have kept your
email from the
cafe to help
when I bite
the bullet and
try to get
going on this,
of course once
we vote on
everything.
One question I
did have is in
regards to
this part of
your email:
"I
had questions
and bivio's
support guided
me through
this process.
One thing I
did prior to
withdrawing
everyone was
to renew our
annual bivio
subscription
through next
year so I
could do the
2023 tax
return next
year. By
paying now
before all
partners were
withdrawn, the
cost would be
shared by all
partners and
it would be
prepaid. This
is not a
difficult
process, but
it does take
some thought."
I
thought that
you had to
file your last
club tax
return within
3 months of
disbanding, is
that not a
thing
anymore?
TIA
It's not
a difficult
task to
withdraw
partners. Sell
stocks that
are losers,
keep the
winners. This
will provide a
pool of cash
to use to make
all the
partners whole
after
allocating the
stock shares
according to
each partner's
percentage of
ownership.
bivio's
withdrawal
screen uses a
valuation date
and as you
apportion
shares to
partners
according to
their
percentage of
ownership, the
software uses
the
partnership's
available cash
to make up the
difference.
Withdraw
partners over
a weekend so
that there are
no financial
transaction
hitting the
accounts. My
approach was
to withdraw
partners on a
Saturday using
Friday's
valuation
date. As the
last
individual, I
didn't
withdraw
myself until
Monday because
I used Sunday
to post any
dividends or
other incomes
that will be
received after
everyone else
had withdrawn.
There was no
date in a
calendar when
some stock was
not trading
ex-dividend.
So these
dividends and
income
received after
all the other
partners were
withdrawn on
Saturday were
posted into
the Suspense
account with
the Sunday
date so as to
not alter
their
withdrawals.
They were
already off
the books, but
they are owed
the income. As
the last
partner, I
withdrew
myself on
Monday, using
Sunday
valuation
date, which
would
incorporate
the Friday
closing prices
and any income
(interest/dividends received after my Monday withdrawal when all
partners would
otherwise be
off the books.
As the last
partner, I
received all
the dividend
income that
the
partnership
received after
Friday; it
will be
included on my
own personal
tax return and
I will
reimburse my
other partners
(who withdrew
on Friday) for
their share of
this income.
I had
questions and
bivio's
support guided
me through
this process.
One thing I
did prior to
withdrawing
everyone was
to renew our
annual bivio
subscription
through next
year so I
could do the
2023 tax
return next
year. By
paying now
before all
partners were
withdrawn, the
cost would be
shared by all
partners and
it would be
prepaid. This
is not a
difficult
process, but
it does take
some thought.
To
facilitate the
stock
transfers, all
partners
opened a
brokerage
account with
the club's
broker and I
directed the
broker to
transfer
shares and
cash between
the accounts.
The bank
account's cash
was also owed
to me for my
withdrawal as
the last
partner. We
will keep the
broker account
open with a
zero balance
for a month or
two to make
sure all
income is
received. If I
forgot any
income, it
will be easy
enough to
delete my
withdrawal,
post the new
income with
the Sunday
posting date,
re-enter my
withdrawal and
then transfer
the income
from the
broker to my
personal
account. As
an aside, I
failed to
consider four
stocks that
were trading
ex-dividend
and a small
money market
interest
posting when I
initially
withdrew us
all and this
problem was
resolved by
the work
around
described
above.
Judith,
I talked to
Bivio they
will help but
no, they will
not do it for
you, there is
a fee. I was
thinking of
talking to my
tax person and
seeing what
they said. It
would be worth
paying someone
to make sure
it was done
correctly and
fairly.
Does
Bivio do this
for you (for a
fee) or would
a tax person
do this for us
(for a fee)
Fear of doing
it wrong! We
have a lot of
capital gains
and member are
all elderly
and worried
about the
taxes.