Distribute Stocks for Disbanding Club - Just Say No
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Distribute Stocks for Disbanding Club - Just Say No Our valuation date was 30 Sept. I the treasurer am still on Dec 18 (13 days from end of calendar year) fussing with checks and withdrawals and the like since, despite Bivio recommending otherwise, and me conveying to club members that transferring stock on club disbanding was a bad idea, three partners insisted. Where do I start? Getting broker accounts numbers from partners? Sending letter to broker and transferring stock where the the club valuation date, the broker Transfer date and stock market ups and downs change club values? Getting notarized signatures in the midst of a pandemic where all club members are vulnerable demographic (done whether stocks or cash, but still one more $&#@$!! thing to do). Where exhaustive research on dividends to be paid, ex dividend dates, etc all went to #$&!! as another unexpected dividend came in? Where the members who elected stock think that market changes in stock values cause the members who elected cash to owe money to the stock electors creates schisms in long standing respect and friendships? Being on hold for one hour with broker and then on line with broker for 45 minutes going stock by stock, lot by lot, specifying which of three member account transferred to, got how many shares of which stock in which lot, including who gets the odd number and equalizing odd numbers out so numbers even out and no member feels treated unfairly? Getting refund from BI on club membership which has to be dated before Valuation date although received six weeks after? The time of the treasurer? The angst of the treasurer? Will we make the 31 dec deadline? Will we make the IRS federal tax deadline for forms (related to disbanding date not March 15? Will our Bivio subscription run out or do we have to renew? It is endless. Once you decide to disband, rip off bandaid all at once,not a little bit at a time, distribute CASH CASH CASH!!! IT IS NOT WORTH IT! And no, withdrawing stock does not give members stepped up basis from club basis. Just give all cash and accept that you will all have capital gains! No one gets to avoid them. As the commercial used to say, pay me now or pay me later (I am a proponent of paying stock to withdrawing members, but DISBANDING is a different animal). Irina Clements Treasurer Streetbeaters For future reference, this sounds like something that should be included in the Partnership Agreement/By-Laws that when a partnership decides to disband, the equities will be CASHED out and distributed, rather than giving any partner an option in taking stock in lieu of cash. This is for disbanding only. I agree with Irina that member/partner withdrawals are best using stock transfer. Megan McKinlay, Inland Empire - ACM Model Club Our valuation date was 30 Sept. I the treasurer am still on Irina, I feel your pain. Having been treasurer of our club for many years, if I was ever put into this situation...... and the club members didn't agree to all stocks being sold, they would get my immediate resignation. Let somebody else clean up their mess. Club treasurers, who are volunteers, not paid employees, should not be subjected to this kind of treatment from their membership. Dick Lewis Gentlemen's Mutual Investment Club -----Original Message----- From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Irina Clements via bivio.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 10:38 AM To: club_cafe@bivio.com Subject: [club_cafe] Distribute Stocks for Disbanding Club - Just Say No Our valuation date was 30 Sept. I the treasurer am still on Dec 18 (13 days from end of calendar year) fussing with checks and withdrawals and the like since, despite Bivio recommending otherwise, and me conveying to club members that transferring stock on club disbanding was a bad idea, three partners insisted. Where do I start? Getting broker accounts numbers from partners? Sending letter to broker and transferring stock where the the club valuation date, the broker Transfer date and stock market ups and downs change club values? Getting notarized signatures in the midst of a pandemic where all club members are vulnerable demographic (done whether stocks or cash, but still one more $&#@$!! thing to do). Where exhaustive research on dividends to be paid, ex dividend dates, etc all went to #$&!! as another unexpected dividend came in? Where the members who elected stock think that market changes in stock values cause the members who elected cash to owe money to the stock electors creates schisms in long standing respect and friendships? Being on hold for one hour with broker and then on line with broker for 45 minutes going stock by stock, lot by lot, specifying which of three member account transferred to, got how many shares of which stock in which lot, including who gets the odd number and equalizing odd numbers out so numbers even out and no member feels treated unfairly? Getting refund from BI on club membership which has to be dated before Valuation date although received six weeks after? The time of the treasurer? The angst of the treasurer? Will we make the 31 dec deadline? Will we make the IRS federal tax deadline for forms (related to disbanding date not March 15? Will our Bivio subscription run out or do we have to renew? It is endless. Once you decide to disband, rip off bandaid all at once,not a little bit at a time, distribute CASH CASH CASH!!! IT IS NOT WORTH IT! And no, withdrawing stock does not give members stepped up basis from club basis. Just give all cash and accept that you will all have capital gains! No one gets to avoid them. As the commercial used to say, pay me now or pay me later (I am a proponent of paying stock to withdrawing members, but DISBANDING is a different animal). Irina Clements Treasurer Streetbeaters I think those 3 members owe you extra stock!! Sent from my iPhone Jan Neuenschwander > On Dec 18, 2020, at 10:40 AM, Dick Lewis via bivio.com <user*30211200001@bivio.com> wrote: > > Irina, > I feel your pain. Having been treasurer of our club for many years, if I > was ever put into this situation...... and the club members didn't agree to > all stocks being sold, they would get my immediate resignation. Let > somebody else clean up their mess. Club treasurers, who are volunteers, not > paid employees, should not be subjected to this kind of treatment from their > membership. > > Dick Lewis > Gentlemen's Mutual Investment Club > > > -----Original Message----- > From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Irina Clements > via bivio.com > Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 10:38 AM > To: club_cafe@bivio.com > Subject: [club_cafe] Distribute Stocks for Disbanding Club - Just Say No > > Our valuation date was 30 Sept. I the treasurer am still on Dec 18 (13 days > from end of calendar year) fussing with checks and withdrawals and the like > since, despite Bivio recommending otherwise, and me conveying to club > members that transferring stock on club disbanding was a bad idea, three > partners insisted. > > Where do I start? > Getting broker accounts numbers from partners? > Sending letter to broker and transferring stock where the the club valuation > date, the broker Transfer date and stock market ups and downs change club > values? > Getting notarized signatures in the midst of a pandemic where all club > members are vulnerable demographic (done whether stocks or cash, but still > one more $&#@$!! thing to do). > Where exhaustive research on dividends to be paid, ex dividend dates, etc > all went to #$&!! as another unexpected dividend came in? > Where the members who elected stock think that market changes in stock > values cause the members who elected cash to owe money to the stock electors > creates schisms in long standing respect and friendships? > Being on hold for one hour with broker and then on line with broker for 45 > minutes going stock by stock, lot by lot, specifying which of three member > account transferred to, got how many shares of which stock in which lot, > including who gets the odd number and equalizing odd numbers out so numbers > even out and no member feels treated unfairly? > Getting refund from BI on club membership which has to be dated before > Valuation date although received six weeks after? > The time of the treasurer? > The angst of the treasurer? > Will we make the 31 dec deadline? > Will we make the IRS federal tax deadline for forms (related to disbanding > date not March 15? > Will our Bivio subscription run out or do we have to renew? > > It is endless. Once you decide to disband, rip off bandaid all at once,not a > little bit at a time, distribute CASH CASH CASH!!! > > IT IS NOT WORTH IT! > > And no, withdrawing stock does not give members stepped up basis from club > basis. > > Just give all cash and accept that you will all have capital gains! No one > gets to avoid them. As the commercial used to say, pay me now or pay me > later (I am a proponent of paying stock to withdrawing members, but > DISBANDING is a different animal). > > Irina Clements > Treasurer Streetbeaters > Irina: Take a close look at your partnership agreement. If dissolution is not specifically addressed in the agreement, I would think that the partnership as a whole should be able to vote on dissolution by full liquidation. Unless the three partners who want their distribution in stock form a majority, the partnership should be able to overrule them. Best regards, Ty Hughes On Dec 18, 2020, at 11:39 AM, Dick Lewis via bivio.com <user*30211200001@bivio.com> wrote: Irina, I feel your pain. Having been treasurer of our club for many years, if I was ever put into this situation...... and the club members didn't agree to all stocks being sold, they would get my immediate resignation. Let somebody else clean up their mess. Club treasurers, who are volunteers, not paid employees, should not be subjected to this kind of treatment from their membership. Dick Lewis Gentlemen's Mutual Investment Club -----Original Message----- From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Irina Clements via bivio.com Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 10:38 AM To: club_cafe@bivio.com Subject: [club_cafe] Distribute Stocks for Disbanding Club - Just Say No Our valuation date was 30 Sept. I the treasurer am still on Dec 18 (13 days from end of calendar year) fussing with checks and withdrawals and the like since, despite Bivio recommending otherwise, and me conveying to club members that transferring stock on club disbanding was a bad idea, three partners insisted. Where do I start? Getting broker accounts numbers from partners? Sending letter to broker and transferring stock where the the club valuation date, the broker Transfer date and stock market ups and downs change club values? Getting notarized signatures in the midst of a pandemic where all club members are vulnerable demographic (done whether stocks or cash, but still one more $&#@$!! thing to do). Where exhaustive research on dividends to be paid, ex dividend dates, etc all went to #$&!! as another unexpected dividend came in? Where the members who elected stock think that market changes in stock values cause the members who elected cash to owe money to the stock electors creates schisms in long standing respect and friendships? Being on hold for one hour with broker and then on line with broker for 45 minutes going stock by stock, lot by lot, specifying which of three member account transferred to, got how many shares of which stock in which lot, including who gets the odd number and equalizing odd numbers out so numbers even out and no member feels treated unfairly? Getting refund from BI on club membership which has to be dated before Valuation date although received six weeks after? The time of the treasurer? The angst of the treasurer? Will we make the 31 dec deadline? Will we make the IRS federal tax deadline for forms (related to disbanding date not March 15? Will our Bivio subscription run out or do we have to renew? It is endless. Once you decide to disband, rip off bandaid all at once,not a little bit at a time, distribute CASH CASH CASH!!! IT IS NOT WORTH IT! And no, withdrawing stock does not give members stepped up basis from club basis. Just give all cash and accept that you will all have capital gains! No one gets to avoid them. As the commercial used to say, pay me now or pay me later (I am a proponent of paying stock to withdrawing members, but DISBANDING is a different animal). Irina Clements Treasurer Streetbeaters So a club decides to disband and sell all of their stocks, which can be done in one day. The treasurer will now have to wait until all owed dividends are paid and then wait until the end of the month of the last dividend that was paid. If the treasurer then withdraws everyone then the brokerage account will still be accruing interest from their cash balance until all of the checks are cashed/transferred. There will be accrued interest in the account after all of the checks are cashed. Does the treasurer do their check last to account for the accrued interest? John Rice Irina: Irina, I agree with you. One point that should be made is that when the members receive their cash they are free to open a new account or add to any existing brokerage account, and buy whatever combination of stocks they wish. IMO: The members of the club you describe were very disrespectful of the Treasurer's time, and--in retrospect- the Treasurer should have said, NO! Not going to do it. The only other consideration would be tax implications, if any. But, am I correct in my understanding that when an individual member withdraws, regardless of whether he receives cash or stocks, he incurs his tax obligation that year? Or is the withdrawing member able to control when they incur that gain? May I also assume the same rules apply when all members withdraw? Our valuation date was 30 Sept. I the treasurer am still on I believe the tax implications relate to the year of disbanding, but I ask Ira to weigh in as I am not a tax attorney. Best, Irina On Dec 18, 2020, at 12:32 PM, Linda Glein via bivio.com <user*21345500001@bivio.com> wrote:
All, thank you all for your compassion. My purpose in sharing was to really advocate against stock during disbanding. I have found this forum super useful and was to share my experience, a real person many of you know, that stock transfers in disbanding are a non -starter. My intent is to start a new club, encorporating some best practices w lessons I have learned over the years into the operating documents and procedures. Streetbeaters has been a labor of love for me this many years and I hope to build a new group of TBD partners. Best, Irina PS And yes, new club will using Bivio making me a continuing "bivion".ð On Dec 18, 2020, at 12:32 PM, Linda Glein via bivio.com <user*21345500001@bivio.com> wrote:
I closed out a club in 2019 by transferring two or three stocks to ten different people. Our account was at TD Ameritrade who has a one page form to fill out. I think it is the same one that you would use if you were transferring donated stock to a charity. Each person filled in the brokerage account information they wanted their shares sent to. I took the forms into TD Ameritrade where the person at the front desk had no clue but fortunately knew the right person to call, and the shares started transferring out that very day. Years ago when a departing member never gave me their brokerage information, I ordered stock certificates which I mailed to them and deducted the considerable fees from their proceeds. Selling all the stock before disbanding is so unfair to members who have large balances going back perhaps decades and now have to pay capital gains taxes on everything all in one year. I would strongly recommend against making that the only option in your partnership agreement. Since bivio provides all the information people need to carry on and their values relate to the date used in the final valuation (our disbanding motion stated what that date would be), it doesn't matter what happens to the values of the stocks subsequently, for the treasurer. I ended up with less than ten dollars in the account when all the checks had been cashed. The former members had no problem with me pocketing that. I'm sorry your experience was so frustrating, but others may find the process less fraught with roadblocks. You have every right to be upset at the hassles you faced. My experience was completely different. Lisa Robertson > > > Our valuation date was 30 Sept. I the treasurer am still on > Dec 18 (13 days from end of calendar year) fussing with > checks and withdrawals and the like since, despite Bivio > recommending otherwise, and me conveying to club members > that transferring stock on club disbanding was a bad idea, > three partners insisted. > > Where do I start? > Getting broker accounts numbers from partners? > Sending letter to broker and transferring stock where the > the club valuation date, the broker Transfer date and stock > market ups and downs change club values? > Getting notarized signatures in the midst of a pandemic > where all club members are vulnerable demographic (done > whether stocks or cash, but still one more $&#@$!! thing to > do). > Where exhaustive research on dividends to be paid, ex > dividend dates, etc all went to #$&!! as another unexpected > dividend came in? > Where the members who elected stock think that market > changes in stock values cause the members who elected cash > to owe money to the stock electors creates schisms in long > standing respect and friendships? > Being on hold for one hour with broker and then on line with > broker for 45 minutes going stock by stock, lot by lot, > specifying which of three member account transferred to, got > how many shares of which stock in which lot, including who > gets the odd number and equalizing odd numbers out so > numbers even out and no member feels treated unfairly? > Getting refund from BI on club membership which has to be > dated before Valuation date although received six weeks > after? > The time of the treasurer? > The angst of the treasurer? > Will we make the 31 dec deadline? > Will we make the IRS federal tax deadline for forms (related > to disbanding date not March 15? > Will our Bivio subscription run out or do we have to renew? > > It is endless. Once you decide to disband, rip off bandaid > all at once,not a little bit at a time, distribute CASH CASH > CASH!!! > > IT IS NOT WORTH IT! > > And no, withdrawing stock does not give members stepped up > basis from club basis. > > Just give all cash and accept that you will all have capital > gains! No one gets to avoid them. As the commercial used to > say, pay me now or pay me later (I am a proponent of paying > stock to withdrawing members, but DISBANDING is a different > animal). > > Irina Clements > Treasurer Streetbeaters |
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