Virtual audit
Fellow bivions,
We annual audit the books of our Club with two "Disinterested Partners." With the virus we are doing everything virial ie., Zoom, Go2Mtg. etc. So, how do we do a virtual audit? I am open for suggestions.
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Larry Reno
Director
Georgia Chapter of BetterInvesting
www.betterinvesting.org/chapters/georgia
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement--Mark Twain.
Stay positive....Test negative!!
I have to do this also. My plan was to download all of the necessary reports and email them to the audit committee in Excel or Word as necessary. I was managing the audit of another (noninvestment) club, and the Treasurer sent everything as google docs. I don't know yet how to use Google docs, so I might pick that up pretty quickly.
On the other hand, everyone can log into Bivio and follow along with the reports since they are all in Bivio, except the 1099 and cost basis and value that the brokerage shows.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
Fellow bivions,
We annual audit the books of our Club with two "Disinterested Partners." With the virus we are doing everything virial ie., Zoom, Go2Mtg. etc. So, how do we do a virtual audit? I am open for suggestions.
Larry RenoDirectorGeorgia Chapter of BetterInvestingGood judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement--Mark Twain.Stay positive....Test negative!!![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
We have been doing in effect virtual audits for some time now. As the Treasurer, I allow the"disinterested party" access to our brokerage account. All of our statements are in Bivio as well. Once the auditor is finished, I make a new password to the brokerage account. While this is not perfect, we have never had an issue. Some folks may not like this, but our club has been together for 25 years and we all know each other well.
The auditor usually calls with questions and the audit is complete. I do watch carefully when the member has access just to make sure nothing wrong has been done.
Tim Hoyman, Colorado Leprechauns
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of
Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:11 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Virtual audit
I have to do this also. My plan was to download all of the necessary reports and email them to the audit committee in Excel or Word as necessary. I was managing the audit of another (noninvestment) club, and the Treasurer sent everything as google docs. I don't know yet how to use Google docs, so I might pick that up pretty quickly.
On the other hand, everyone can log into Bivio and follow along with the reports since they are all in Bivio, except the 1099 and cost basis and value that the brokerage shows.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:35 PM Larry Reno via bivio.com <user*17642900001@bivio.com> wrote:
Fellow bivions,
We annual audit the books of our Club with two "Disinterested Partners." With the virus we are doing everything virial ie., Zoom, Go2Mtg. etc. So, how do we do a virtual audit? I am open for suggestions.
Larry Reno
Director
Georgia Chapter of BetterInvesting
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement--Mark Twain.
Stay positive....Test negative!!
Tim Hoyman--why would you not download the brokerage reports into a PDF file and send those to the auditors. I realize that they might not be seeing original docs, but I am hard pressed to think about what chicanery you might be up to that would show up in the brokerage report but not in Bivio.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
We have been doing in effect virtual audits for some time now. As the Treasurer, I allow the"disinterested party" access to our brokerage account. All of our statements are in Bivio as well. Once the auditor is finished, I make a new password to the brokerage account. While this is not perfect, we have never had an issue. Some folks may not like this, but our club has been together for 25 years and we all know each other well.
The auditor usually calls with questions and the audit is complete. I do watch carefully when the member has access just to make sure nothing wrong has been done.
Tim Hoyman, Colorado Leprechauns
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:11 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Virtual audit
I have to do this also. My plan was to download all of the necessary reports and email them to the audit committee in Excel or Word as necessary. I was managing the audit of another (noninvestment) club, and the Treasurer sent everything as google docs. I don't know yet how to use Google docs, so I might pick that up pretty quickly.
On the other hand, everyone can log into Bivio and follow along with the reports since they are all in Bivio, except the 1099 and cost basis and value that the brokerage shows.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:35 PM Larry Reno via bivio.com <user*17642900001@bivio.com> wrote:
Fellow bivions,
We annual audit the books of our Club with two "Disinterested Partners." With the virus we are doing everything virial ie., Zoom, Go2Mtg. etc. So, how do we do a virtual audit? I am open for suggestions.
Larry Reno
Director
Georgia Chapter of BetterInvesting
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement--Mark Twain.
Stay positive....Test negative!!
That is what I do - download reports and send them with filled-out checklist and findings. Has worked so far.
Mike
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 6:42 PM Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com <user*26984900001@bivio.com> wrote:
Tim Hoyman--why would you not download the brokerage reports into a PDF file and send those to the auditors. I realize that they might not be seeing original docs, but I am hard pressed to think about what chicanery you might be up to that would show up in the brokerage report but not in Bivio.Peter DunkelbergerSumner Stock Selectors Investment ClubWe have been doing in effect virtual audits for some time now. As the Treasurer, I allow the"disinterested party" access to our brokerage account. All of our statements are in Bivio as well. Once the auditor is finished, I make a new password to the brokerage account. While this is not perfect, we have never had an issue. Some folks may not like this, but our club has been together for 25 years and we all know each other well.
The auditor usually calls with questions and the audit is complete. I do watch carefully when the member has access just to make sure nothing wrong has been done.
Tim Hoyman, Colorado Leprechauns
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:11 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Virtual audit
I have to do this also. My plan was to download all of the necessary reports and email them to the audit committee in Excel or Word as necessary. I was managing the audit of another (noninvestment) club, and the Treasurer sent everything as google docs. I don't know yet how to use Google docs, so I might pick that up pretty quickly.
On the other hand, everyone can log into Bivio and follow along with the reports since they are all in Bivio, except the 1099 and cost basis and value that the brokerage shows.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:35 PM Larry Reno via bivio.com <user*17642900001@bivio.com> wrote:
Fellow bivions,
We annual audit the books of our Club with two "Disinterested Partners." With the virus we are doing everything virial ie., Zoom, Go2Mtg. etc. So, how do we do a virtual audit? I am open for suggestions.
Larry Reno
Director
Georgia Chapter of BetterInvesting
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement--Mark Twain.
Stay positive....Test negative!!
Good question. I do have all of the statements in PDF in Bivio. I have them by year in the I just give the auditor the opportunity to check if they want. I have them stored in the "communications" "Files" section of Bivio.
Bivio is so good you are right, anyone can look and plainly see. I think only once in several years did we even have to go on the Brokerage account, but I want them to have the ability to look.
I hope that answers your question.
Tim Hoyman
The Mozart of Real Estate
303-669-2676
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Never trust wiring instructions sent via email. Cyber criminals are hacking email accounts and sending emails with fake wiring instructions. These emails are convincing and sophisticated. Always independently confirm wiring instructions in person or via a telephone call to a trusted and verified phone number. Never wire money without double-checking that the wiring instructions are correct.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email message and any attached files contain confidential information intended only for the person(s) to whom the transmission is addressed. If you receive this message and you are not the addressee, do not read the message or any attached files. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution is strictly prohibited, and no rights are waived. If you are not the person(s) to whom the message is addressed, please return the email to the sender by sending an email reply, and delete the message from your computer system. Please also contact the sender at The Denver 100, LLC, 385 Inverness Pkwy, Suite 270, Englewood, CO 80112, 303-669-2676. Thank you.
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of
Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:42 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Virtual audit
Tim Hoyman--why would you not download the brokerage reports into a PDF file and send those to the auditors. I realize that they might not be seeing original docs, but I am hard pressed to think about what chicanery you might be up to that would show up in the brokerage report but not in Bivio.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 9:29 PM Tim Hoyman via bivio.com <user*22524700001@bivio.com> wrote:
We have been doing in effect virtual audits for some time now. As the Treasurer, I allow the"disinterested party" access to our brokerage account. All of our statements are in Bivio as well. Once the auditor is finished, I make a new password to the brokerage account. While this is not perfect, we have never had an issue. Some folks may not like this, but our club has been together for 25 years and we all know each other well.
The auditor usually calls with questions and the audit is complete. I do watch carefully when the member has access just to make sure nothing wrong has been done.
Tim Hoyman, Colorado Leprechauns
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:11 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Virtual audit
I have to do this also. My plan was to download all of the necessary reports and email them to the audit committee in Excel or Word as necessary. I was managing the audit of another (noninvestment) club, and the Treasurer sent everything as google docs. I don't know yet how to use Google docs, so I might pick that up pretty quickly.
On the other hand, everyone can log into Bivio and follow along with the reports since they are all in Bivio, except the 1099 and cost basis and value that the brokerage shows.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:35 PM Larry Reno via bivio.com <user*17642900001@bivio.com> wrote:
Fellow bivions,
We annual audit the books of our Club with two "Disinterested Partners." With the virus we are doing everything virial ie., Zoom, Go2Mtg. etc. So, how do we do a virtual audit? I am open for suggestions.
Larry Reno
Director
Georgia Chapter of BetterInvesting
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement--Mark Twain.
Stay positive....Test negative!!
In almost 12years as an online club, we have never had an in-person meeting or in person audit. Just follow the audit guide. Nothing really unique as long as we have the reports.
Mark Eckman
Fellow bivions,
We annual audit the books of our Club with two "Disinterested Partners." With the virus we are doing everything virial ie., Zoom, Go2Mtg. etc. So, how do we do a virtual audit? I am open for suggestions.
Larry RenoDirectorGeorgia Chapter of BetterInvestingGood judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement--Mark Twain.Stay positive....Test negative!!![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
Mark Eckman
We've been doing this for years.
Download the Audit report form which lists all of the required reports.
Store them online where anyone in the club can access them.
No need to give anyone access to the brokerage account. But, it is nice if view-only access is possible. (Someone mentioned 'watching carefully' -- I can't even imagine what that means.)
We split the job up and it;s done and signed off in a few days.
Linda
Fellow bivions,
We annual audit the books of our Club with two "Disinterested Partners." With the virus we are doing everything virial ie., Zoom, Go2Mtg. etc. So, how do we do a virtual audit? I am open for suggestions.
Larry RenoDirectorGeorgia Chapter of BetterInvestingGood judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement--Mark Twain.Stay positive....Test negative!!![]()
![]()
![]()
![]()
I think it is important for the auditors to see that 1)the portfolio cost basis for the brokerage is the same as the portfolio cost basis in Bivio, 2) the market value of your portfolio in the brokerage is the same as in Bivio , 3) the year's gains and losses on the brokerage 1099 is the same as in Bivio, and 4) the cash receipts and disbursements for the brokerage cash account is the same as shown in Bivio.
That is a pretty fair amount of information the auditors should be checking out. If that comparison is not done, there is a lot of manipulation of the Bivio account that could take place.
Peter Dunkelberger
Good question. I do have all of the statements in PDF in Bivio. I have them by year in the I just give the auditor the opportunity to check if they want. I have them stored in the "communications" "Files" section of Bivio.
Bivio is so good you are right, anyone can look and plainly see. I think only once in several years did we even have to go on the Brokerage account, but I want them to have the ability to look.
I hope that answers your question.
Tim Hoyman
The Mozart of Real Estate
303-669-2676
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Never trust wiring instructions sent via email. Cyber criminals are hacking email accounts and sending emails with fake wiring instructions. These emails are convincing and sophisticated. Always independently confirm wiring instructions in person or via a telephone call to a trusted and verified phone number. Never wire money without double-checking that the wiring instructions are correct.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email message and any attached files contain confidential information intended only for the person(s) to whom the transmission is addressed. If you receive this message and you are not the addressee, do not read the message or any attached files. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution is strictly prohibited, and no rights are waived. If you are not the person(s) to whom the message is addressed, please return the email to the sender by sending an email reply, and delete the message from your computer system. Please also contact the sender at The Denver 100, LLC, 385 Inverness Pkwy, Suite 270, Englewood, CO 80112, 303-669-2676. Thank you.
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:42 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Virtual audit
Tim Hoyman--why would you not download the brokerage reports into a PDF file and send those to the auditors. I realize that they might not be seeing original docs, but I am hard pressed to think about what chicanery you might be up to that would show up in the brokerage report but not in Bivio.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 9:29 PM Tim Hoyman via bivio.com <user*22524700001@bivio.com> wrote:
We have been doing in effect virtual audits for some time now. As the Treasurer, I allow the"disinterested party" access to our brokerage account. All of our statements are in Bivio as well. Once the auditor is finished, I make a new password to the brokerage account. While this is not perfect, we have never had an issue. Some folks may not like this, but our club has been together for 25 years and we all know each other well.
The auditor usually calls with questions and the audit is complete. I do watch carefully when the member has access just to make sure nothing wrong has been done.
Tim Hoyman, Colorado Leprechauns
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:11 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Virtual audit
I have to do this also. My plan was to download all of the necessary reports and email them to the audit committee in Excel or Word as necessary. I was managing the audit of another (noninvestment) club, and the Treasurer sent everything as google docs. I don't know yet how to use Google docs, so I might pick that up pretty quickly.
On the other hand, everyone can log into Bivio and follow along with the reports since they are all in Bivio, except the 1099 and cost basis and value that the brokerage shows.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:35 PM Larry Reno via bivio.com <user*17642900001@bivio.com> wrote:
Fellow bivions,
We annual audit the books of our Club with two "Disinterested Partners." With the virus we are doing everything virial ie., Zoom, Go2Mtg. etc. So, how do we do a virtual audit? I am open for suggestions.
Larry Reno
Director
Georgia Chapter of BetterInvesting
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement--Mark Twain.
Stay positive....Test negative!!
Although docs are in Bivio, I download all from Bivio and Etrade convert or adjust columns and then create tabs for particular subsets.
Our club does Audit w treasurer and asst treasurer there to assist/explain. We do via GTM. We have the two members go line by line through the Bivio audit memo, showing reports and spreadsheets. Having treasurer / asst treasurer to help gives all a look at how everything cross references.
We can knock out in less than 2 hrs (we ensure all files of club docs, minutes, expense receipts, etc all current and available).
It has actually been a good thing to have us all there. For example, creating a folder in Bivio for digital copies of expense receipts, was an innovation created by in response to me holding up different pieces of paper, return receipt post cards, etc. Club agreed that digitization of receipts was ok.
With the money involved, going line by line via Bivio memo, and showing the relevant broker and Bivio reports gives us all a warm fuzzy. A couple of years we found things, noted on form, and corrected for following years.
Best, Irina
On Dec 15, 2020, at 9:47 PM, Michael Grove via bivio.com <user*23913100001@bivio.com> wrote:
That is what I do - download reports and send them with filled-out checklist and findings. Has worked so far.MikeOn Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 6:42 PM Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com <user*26984900001@bivio.com> wrote:Tim Hoyman--why would you not download the brokerage reports into a PDF file and send those to the auditors. I realize that they might not be seeing original docs, but I am hard pressed to think about what chicanery you might be up to that would show up in the brokerage report but not in Bivio.Peter DunkelbergerSumner Stock Selectors Investment ClubWe have been doing in effect virtual audits for some time now. As the Treasurer, I allow the"disinterested party" access to our brokerage account. All of our statements are in Bivio as well. Once the auditor is finished, I make a new password to the brokerage account. While this is not perfect, we have never had an issue. Some folks may not like this, but our club has been together for 25 years and we all know each other well.
The auditor usually calls with questions and the audit is complete. I do watch carefully when the member has access just to make sure nothing wrong has been done.
Tim Hoyman, Colorado Leprechauns
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:11 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Virtual audit
I have to do this also. My plan was to download all of the necessary reports and email them to the audit committee in Excel or Word as necessary. I was managing the audit of another (noninvestment) club, and the Treasurer sent everything as google docs. I don't know yet how to use Google docs, so I might pick that up pretty quickly.
On the other hand, everyone can log into Bivio and follow along with the reports since they are all in Bivio, except the 1099 and cost basis and value that the brokerage shows.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:35 PM Larry Reno via bivio.com <user*17642900001@bivio.com> wrote:
Fellow bivions,
We annual audit the books of our Club with two "Disinterested Partners." With the virus we are doing everything virial ie., Zoom, Go2Mtg. etc. So, how do we do a virtual audit? I am open for suggestions.
Larry Reno
Director
Georgia Chapter of BetterInvesting
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement--Mark Twain.
Stay positive....Test negative!!
Regarding "Bivio manipulation"... every time there is a transaction, treasurers and president receives "club has unidentifiable transaction x". At end of that is statement, Bivio and broker amounts agree/ do not agree. We download and share broker statements monthly. And the "broker agrees with Bivio balane" is significant. We use that to identify if accounts amounts don't agree whether by pennies or larger to ensure all issues don't fester. If there is such a statement in Bivio email, I bring to club meeting with explanation, correction.
Certainly nefarious things can occur, but bivio emails provide another check.
Best, Irina
On Dec 15, 2020, at 10:16 PM, Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com <user*26984900001@bivio.com> wrote:
I think it is important for the auditors to see that 1)the portfolio cost basis for the brokerage is the same as the portfolio cost basis in Bivio, 2) the market value of your portfolio in the brokerage is the same as in Bivio , 3) the year's gains and losses on the brokerage 1099 is the same as in Bivio, and 4) the cash receipts and disbursements for the brokerage cash account is the same as shown in Bivio.That is a pretty fair amount of information the auditors should be checking out. If that comparison is not done, there is a lot of manipulation of the Bivio account that could take place.Peter DunkelbergerGood question. I do have all of the statements in PDF in Bivio. I have them by year in the I just give the auditor the opportunity to check if they want. I have them stored in the "communications" "Files" section of Bivio.
Bivio is so good you are right, anyone can look and plainly see. I think only once in several years did we even have to go on the Brokerage account, but I want them to have the ability to look.
I hope that answers your question.
Tim Hoyman
The Mozart of Real Estate
303-669-2676
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Never trust wiring instructions sent via email. Cyber criminals are hacking email accounts and sending emails with fake wiring instructions. These emails are convincing and sophisticated. Always independently confirm wiring instructions in person or via a telephone call to a trusted and verified phone number. Never wire money without double-checking that the wiring instructions are correct.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email message and any attached files contain confidential information intended only for the person(s) to whom the transmission is addressed. If you receive this message and you are not the addressee, do not read the message or any attached files. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution is strictly prohibited, and no rights are waived. If you are not the person(s) to whom the message is addressed, please return the email to the sender by sending an email reply, and delete the message from your computer system. Please also contact the sender at The Denver 100, LLC, 385 Inverness Pkwy, Suite 270, Englewood, CO 80112, 303-669-2676. Thank you.
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:42 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Virtual audit
Tim Hoyman--why would you not download the brokerage reports into a PDF file and send those to the auditors. I realize that they might not be seeing original docs, but I am hard pressed to think about what chicanery you might be up to that would show up in the brokerage report but not in Bivio.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 9:29 PM Tim Hoyman via bivio.com <user*22524700001@bivio.com> wrote:
We have been doing in effect virtual audits for some time now. As the Treasurer, I allow the"disinterested party" access to our brokerage account. All of our statements are in Bivio as well. Once the auditor is finished, I make a new password to the brokerage account. While this is not perfect, we have never had an issue. Some folks may not like this, but our club has been together for 25 years and we all know each other well.
The auditor usually calls with questions and the audit is complete. I do watch carefully when the member has access just to make sure nothing wrong has been done.
Tim Hoyman, Colorado Leprechauns
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:11 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Virtual audit
I have to do this also. My plan was to download all of the necessary reports and email them to the audit committee in Excel or Word as necessary. I was managing the audit of another (noninvestment) club, and the Treasurer sent everything as google docs. I don't know yet how to use Google docs, so I might pick that up pretty quickly.
On the other hand, everyone can log into Bivio and follow along with the reports since they are all in Bivio, except the 1099 and cost basis and value that the brokerage shows.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:35 PM Larry Reno via bivio.com <user*17642900001@bivio.com> wrote:
Fellow bivions,
We annual audit the books of our Club with two "Disinterested Partners." With the virus we are doing everything virial ie., Zoom, Go2Mtg. etc. So, how do we do a virtual audit? I am open for suggestions.
Larry Reno
Director
Georgia Chapter of BetterInvesting
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement--Mark Twain.
Stay positive....Test negative!!
I had a big surprise about a year ago. My Bivio market value did not match my TDA market value. I went down the list and found the difference. It was just a few $ on one stock, but the difference arose from the source of the stock prices. I was told that the source for Bivio stock prices for valuation is not necessarily the same source that TDA might use. It was a tiny stock of which we have a few thousand shares, and a tenth of a cent difference per share caused the few dollars difference in the brokerage market value vs. Bivio market value. I was dumbfounded but glad to know why the difference existed.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
Regarding "Bivio manipulation"... every time there is a transaction, treasurers and president receives "club has unidentifiable transaction x". At end of that is statement, Bivio and broker amounts agree/ do not agree. We download and share broker statements monthly. And the "broker agrees with Bivio balane" is significant. We use that to identify if accounts amounts don't agree whether by pennies or larger to ensure all issues don't fester. If there is such a statement in Bivio email, I bring to club meeting with explanation, correction.Certainly nefarious things can occur, but bivio emails provide another check.Best, IrinaOn Dec 15, 2020, at 10:16 PM, Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com <user*26984900001@bivio.com> wrote:I think it is important for the auditors to see that 1)the portfolio cost basis for the brokerage is the same as the portfolio cost basis in Bivio, 2) the market value of your portfolio in the brokerage is the same as in Bivio , 3) the year's gains and losses on the brokerage 1099 is the same as in Bivio, and 4) the cash receipts and disbursements for the brokerage cash account is the same as shown in Bivio.That is a pretty fair amount of information the auditors should be checking out. If that comparison is not done, there is a lot of manipulation of the Bivio account that could take place.Peter DunkelbergerGood question. I do have all of the statements in PDF in Bivio. I have them by year in the I just give the auditor the opportunity to check if they want. I have them stored in the "communications" "Files" section of Bivio.
Bivio is so good you are right, anyone can look and plainly see. I think only once in several years did we even have to go on the Brokerage account, but I want them to have the ability to look.
I hope that answers your question.
Tim Hoyman
The Mozart of Real Estate
303-669-2676
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Never trust wiring instructions sent via email. Cyber criminals are hacking email accounts and sending emails with fake wiring instructions. These emails are convincing and sophisticated. Always independently confirm wiring instructions in person or via a telephone call to a trusted and verified phone number. Never wire money without double-checking that the wiring instructions are correct.
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email message and any attached files contain confidential information intended only for the person(s) to whom the transmission is addressed. If you receive this message and you are not the addressee, do not read the message or any attached files. Any unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution is strictly prohibited, and no rights are waived. If you are not the person(s) to whom the message is addressed, please return the email to the sender by sending an email reply, and delete the message from your computer system. Please also contact the sender at The Denver 100, LLC, 385 Inverness Pkwy, Suite 270, Englewood, CO 80112, 303-669-2676. Thank you.
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:42 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Virtual audit
Tim Hoyman--why would you not download the brokerage reports into a PDF file and send those to the auditors. I realize that they might not be seeing original docs, but I am hard pressed to think about what chicanery you might be up to that would show up in the brokerage report but not in Bivio.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 9:29 PM Tim Hoyman via bivio.com <user*22524700001@bivio.com> wrote:
We have been doing in effect virtual audits for some time now. As the Treasurer, I allow the"disinterested party" access to our brokerage account. All of our statements are in Bivio as well. Once the auditor is finished, I make a new password to the brokerage account. While this is not perfect, we have never had an issue. Some folks may not like this, but our club has been together for 25 years and we all know each other well.
The auditor usually calls with questions and the audit is complete. I do watch carefully when the member has access just to make sure nothing wrong has been done.
Tim Hoyman, Colorado Leprechauns
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:11 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Virtual audit
I have to do this also. My plan was to download all of the necessary reports and email them to the audit committee in Excel or Word as necessary. I was managing the audit of another (noninvestment) club, and the Treasurer sent everything as google docs. I don't know yet how to use Google docs, so I might pick that up pretty quickly.
On the other hand, everyone can log into Bivio and follow along with the reports since they are all in Bivio, except the 1099 and cost basis and value that the brokerage shows.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:35 PM Larry Reno via bivio.com <user*17642900001@bivio.com> wrote:
Fellow bivions,
We annual audit the books of our Club with two "Disinterested Partners." With the virus we are doing everything virial ie., Zoom, Go2Mtg. etc. So, how do we do a virtual audit? I am open for suggestions.
Larry Reno
Director
Georgia Chapter of BetterInvesting
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement--Mark Twain.
Stay positive....Test negative!!
What is "GTM"?
Peter Dunkelberger
Although docs are in Bivio, I download all from Bivio and Etrade convert or adjust columns and then create tabs for particular subsets.Our club does Audit w treasurer and asst treasurer there to assist/explain. We do via GTM. We have the two members go line by line through the Bivio audit memo, showing reports and spreadsheets. Having treasurer / asst treasurer to help gives all a look at how everything cross references.We can knock out in less than 2 hrs (we ensure all files of club docs, minutes, expense receipts, etc all current and available).It has actually been a good thing to have us all there. For example, creating a folder in Bivio for digital copies of expense receipts, was an innovation created by in response to me holding up different pieces of paper, return receipt post cards, etc. Club agreed that digitization of receipts was ok.With the money involved, going line by line via Bivio memo, and showing the relevant broker and Bivio reports gives us all a warm fuzzy. A couple of years we found things, noted on form, and corrected for following years.Best, IrinaOn Dec 15, 2020, at 9:47 PM, Michael Grove via bivio.com <user*23913100001@bivio.com> wrote:That is what I do - download reports and send them with filled-out checklist and findings. Has worked so far.MikeOn Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 6:42 PM Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com <user*26984900001@bivio.com> wrote:Tim Hoyman--why would you not download the brokerage reports into a PDF file and send those to the auditors. I realize that they might not be seeing original docs, but I am hard pressed to think about what chicanery you might be up to that would show up in the brokerage report but not in Bivio.Peter DunkelbergerSumner Stock Selectors Investment ClubWe have been doing in effect virtual audits for some time now. As the Treasurer, I allow the"disinterested party" access to our brokerage account. All of our statements are in Bivio as well. Once the auditor is finished, I make a new password to the brokerage account. While this is not perfect, we have never had an issue. Some folks may not like this, but our club has been together for 25 years and we all know each other well.
The auditor usually calls with questions and the audit is complete. I do watch carefully when the member has access just to make sure nothing wrong has been done.
Tim Hoyman, Colorado Leprechauns
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:11 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Virtual audit
I have to do this also. My plan was to download all of the necessary reports and email them to the audit committee in Excel or Word as necessary. I was managing the audit of another (noninvestment) club, and the Treasurer sent everything as google docs. I don't know yet how to use Google docs, so I might pick that up pretty quickly.
On the other hand, everyone can log into Bivio and follow along with the reports since they are all in Bivio, except the 1099 and cost basis and value that the brokerage shows.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:35 PM Larry Reno via bivio.com <user*17642900001@bivio.com> wrote:
Fellow bivions,
We annual audit the books of our Club with two "Disinterested Partners." With the virus we are doing everything virial ie., Zoom, Go2Mtg. etc. So, how do we do a virtual audit? I am open for suggestions.
Larry Reno
Director
Georgia Chapter of BetterInvesting
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement--Mark Twain.
Stay positive....Test negative!!
Eek sorry. Go To Meeting. Our club purchased as annual membership at a discounted rate available to BI member clubs.
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 16, 2020, at 7:41 AM, Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com <user*26984900001@bivio.com> wrote:
What is "GTM"?Peter DunkelbergerAlthough docs are in Bivio, I download all from Bivio and Etrade convert or adjust columns and then create tabs for particular subsets.Our club does Audit w treasurer and asst treasurer there to assist/explain. We do via GTM. We have the two members go line by line through the Bivio audit memo, showing reports and spreadsheets. Having treasurer / asst treasurer to help gives all a look at how everything cross references.We can knock out in less than 2 hrs (we ensure all files of club docs, minutes, expense receipts, etc all current and available).It has actually been a good thing to have us all there. For example, creating a folder in Bivio for digital copies of expense receipts, was an innovation created by in response to me holding up different pieces of paper, return receipt post cards, etc. Club agreed that digitization of receipts was ok.With the money involved, going line by line via Bivio memo, and showing the relevant broker and Bivio reports gives us all a warm fuzzy. A couple of years we found things, noted on form, and corrected for following years.Best, IrinaOn Dec 15, 2020, at 9:47 PM, Michael Grove via bivio.com <user*23913100001@bivio.com> wrote:That is what I do - download reports and send them with filled-out checklist and findings. Has worked so far.MikeOn Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 6:42 PM Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com <user*26984900001@bivio.com> wrote:Tim Hoyman--why would you not download the brokerage reports into a PDF file and send those to the auditors. I realize that they might not be seeing original docs, but I am hard pressed to think about what chicanery you might be up to that would show up in the brokerage report but not in Bivio.Peter DunkelbergerSumner Stock Selectors Investment ClubWe have been doing in effect virtual audits for some time now. As the Treasurer, I allow the"disinterested party" access to our brokerage account. All of our statements are in Bivio as well. Once the auditor is finished, I make a new password to the brokerage account. While this is not perfect, we have never had an issue. Some folks may not like this, but our club has been together for 25 years and we all know each other well.
The auditor usually calls with questions and the audit is complete. I do watch carefully when the member has access just to make sure nothing wrong has been done.
Tim Hoyman, Colorado Leprechauns
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:11 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Virtual audit
I have to do this also. My plan was to download all of the necessary reports and email them to the audit committee in Excel or Word as necessary. I was managing the audit of another (noninvestment) club, and the Treasurer sent everything as google docs. I don't know yet how to use Google docs, so I might pick that up pretty quickly.
On the other hand, everyone can log into Bivio and follow along with the reports since they are all in Bivio, except the 1099 and cost basis and value that the brokerage shows.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:35 PM Larry Reno via bivio.com <user*17642900001@bivio.com> wrote:
Fellow bivions,
We annual audit the books of our Club with two "Disinterested Partners." With the virus we are doing everything virial ie., Zoom, Go2Mtg. etc. So, how do we do a virtual audit? I am open for suggestions.
Larry Reno
Director
Georgia Chapter of BetterInvesting
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement--Mark Twain.
Stay positive....Test negative!!
I have facilitated the yearly audit for several years for two online clubs that I am involved with.
The day of the audit I use GoToMeeting (but could use Zoom or any other online meeting products like Google Meet or Skype etc.) to have a meeting between myself (always in a facilitator role) and two non-treasurer club members. The actual meeting is usually about an hour and no more than two hours. More about the meeting in a minute.
As facilitator I take time to pull the resources together to make the meeting go smoothly. We use the bivio audit form as our guide. In the Files section on each club's bivio website I set up the files to be used. I have a high level folder called Audits and then subfolders for each year. Under the year I have a subfolder for the Broker (TDA, Fidelity, Schwab, Folio, etc) and a subfolder for "bivio". I also have one more subfolder called "Source Documents" which is used to store receipts for expenses that were paid externally. (Neither of these two clubs have a separate checking account, if you have that you will also have to reconcile that account with bivio as well). So a sample of our structure for 2020 might look like this:
-Audits (subfolder)
-2020 (subfolder)
-bivio (subfolder)
Step 1 2019 EOY Valuation
Step 2 2020 EOY Valuation
Step 3 Interest & Dividends Report for 2020
Step 4 Expenses
Step 5 Short & Long Term Capital Gains and Losses Report
Step 6 Member Contributions
Step 7 Withdrawals
-Broker (subfolder)
Step 1 - Dec 2019 Statement
Step 2 - Dec 2020 Statement
Step 3 - Broker Interest & Dividends report for 2020
Step 5 - Boker Short & Long Term Gains and Losses Report
Step 6 & 7 - Jan-Dec Statements for 2020 (used to see contributions and withdrawals)
-Source Documents (subfolder)
Step 4 All Expense Receipts
- Club Audit form for 2020 (blank is found on bivio)
We have found this process to work extremely well. Neither club has had any serious accounting problems while doing this process.
In my opinion, clubs who do not do yearly audits are just looking for trouble. I would not be in a club that does not do them.
Cheers and hope this helps,
Paul Madison
Eek sorry. Go To Meeting. Our club purchased as annual membership at a discounted rate available to BI member clubs.Sent from my iPhoneOn Dec 16, 2020, at 7:41 AM, Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com <user*26984900001@bivio.com> wrote:What is "GTM"?Peter DunkelbergerAlthough docs are in Bivio, I download all from Bivio and Etrade convert or adjust columns and then create tabs for particular subsets.Our club does Audit w treasurer and asst treasurer there to assist/explain. We do via GTM. We have the two members go line by line through the Bivio audit memo, showing reports and spreadsheets. Having treasurer / asst treasurer to help gives all a look at how everything cross references.We can knock out in less than 2 hrs (we ensure all files of club docs, minutes, expense receipts, etc all current and available).It has actually been a good thing to have us all there. For example, creating a folder in Bivio for digital copies of expense receipts, was an innovation created by in response to me holding up different pieces of paper, return receipt post cards, etc. Club agreed that digitization of receipts was ok.With the money involved, going line by line via Bivio memo, and showing the relevant broker and Bivio reports gives us all a warm fuzzy. A couple of years we found things, noted on form, and corrected for following years.Best, IrinaOn Dec 15, 2020, at 9:47 PM, Michael Grove via bivio.com <user*23913100001@bivio.com> wrote:That is what I do - download reports and send them with filled-out checklist and findings. Has worked so far.MikeOn Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 6:42 PM Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com <user*26984900001@bivio.com> wrote:Tim Hoyman--why would you not download the brokerage reports into a PDF file and send those to the auditors. I realize that they might not be seeing original docs, but I am hard pressed to think about what chicanery you might be up to that would show up in the brokerage report but not in Bivio.Peter DunkelbergerSumner Stock Selectors Investment ClubWe have been doing in effect virtual audits for some time now. As the Treasurer, I allow the"disinterested party" access to our brokerage account. All of our statements are in Bivio as well. Once the auditor is finished, I make a new password to the brokerage account. While this is not perfect, we have never had an issue. Some folks may not like this, but our club has been together for 25 years and we all know each other well.
The auditor usually calls with questions and the audit is complete. I do watch carefully when the member has access just to make sure nothing wrong has been done.
Tim Hoyman, Colorado Leprechauns
From: club_cafe@bivio.com <club_cafe@bivio.com> On Behalf Of Peter Dunkelberger via bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 7:11 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Virtual audit
I have to do this also. My plan was to download all of the necessary reports and email them to the audit committee in Excel or Word as necessary. I was managing the audit of another (noninvestment) club, and the Treasurer sent everything as google docs. I don't know yet how to use Google docs, so I might pick that up pretty quickly.
On the other hand, everyone can log into Bivio and follow along with the reports since they are all in Bivio, except the 1099 and cost basis and value that the brokerage shows.
Peter Dunkelberger
Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 8:35 PM Larry Reno via bivio.com <user*17642900001@bivio.com> wrote:
Fellow bivions,
We annual audit the books of our Club with two "Disinterested Partners." With the virus we are doing everything virial ie., Zoom, Go2Mtg. etc. So, how do we do a virtual audit? I am open for suggestions.
Larry Reno
Director
Georgia Chapter of BetterInvesting
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement--Mark Twain.
Stay positive....Test negative!!