Along these lines I have a question: Our partnership agreement states that the valuation date for all withdrawals is the statement date that is subsequent to the event causing the withdrawal, be it death or voluntary withdrawal. As most statement dates are end of month, that means that a withdrawal request could occur on the 1st day of a month and would not be valued until the end of the month. We have been consistent with that clause in our partnership agreement. But. sadly, we have just had a death of a partner. Our members have pointed out that for estate purposes, the date of death is the primary required valuation date. For payout purposes, we do not have to follow that valuation date, but the estate will need to get that information somehow. Does the partnership have any responsibility for that information? I see a number of scenarios, such as our providing the estate with a list of holdings on the date of death. I also see that our partnership agreement could be changed to a "date of withdrawal/death" event determining the valuation date. How do other clubs deal with valuation dates?
So, to summarize:
Does the club have any responsibility for providing information to an estate concerning the holdings of the club for valuation determination?
How do other clubs deal with valuation dates?
Thanks in advance,
Peter Dunkelberger
Financial Partner, Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
Hello Bivio Club Cafe members. I need some opinions on a difficult topic. I currently lead our SCS Investment Club (over 20 years old) and am trying to assess the impact of 1 or more 'charter members' who are in their 80's and may withdraw at any time now. Three charter members hold 70% of the club's valuation. Is it possible to simulate the impact of their withdrawals from a capital gains/losses tax standpoint on them and the rest of the members, and what are the guidelines around partial vs complete withdrawals? A response as soon as possible is requested as we have a committee meeting to discuss this topic on Friday May 15.
Thanks in advance for your support.
Norm
Norman C Blizard
SCSIC
<image001.png>
Robert Shaw on
The valuation date is specified in our PA.
This is the date we use for ALL withdrawals regardless of reason.
Our VD is the close of business on the Thursday before our Saturday meeting.
We also specify in the PA how the WD is to be made.
You are running a business and need to have carefully thought out rules and follow them.
Along these lines I have a question: Our partnership agreement states that the valuation date for all withdrawals is the statement date that is subsequent to the event causing the withdrawal, be it death or voluntary withdrawal. As most statement dates are end of month, that means that a withdrawal request could occur on the 1st day of a month and would not be valued until the end of the month. We have been consistent with that clause in our partnership agreement. But. sadly, we have just had a death of a partner. Our members have pointed out that for estate purposes, the date of death is the primary required valuation date. For payout purposes, we do not have to follow that valuation date, but the estate will need to get that information somehow. Does the partnership have any responsibility for that information? I see a number of scenarios, such as our providing the estate with a list of holdings on the date of death. I also see that our partnership agreement could be changed to a "date of withdrawal/death" event determining the valuation date. How do other clubs deal with valuation dates?
So, to summarize:
Does the club have any responsibility for providing information to an estate concerning the holdings of the club for valuation determination?
How do other clubs deal with valuation dates?
Thanks in advance,
Peter Dunkelberger
Financial Partner, Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
Hello Bivio Club Cafe members. I need some opinions on a difficult topic. I currently lead our SCS Investment Club (over 20 years old) and am trying to assess the impact of 1 or more 'charter members' who are in their 80's and may withdraw at any time now. Three charter members hold 70% of the club's valuation. Is it possible to simulate the impact of their withdrawals from a capital gains/losses tax standpoint on them and the rest of the members, and what are the guidelines around partial vs complete withdrawals? A response as soon as possible is requested as we have a committee meeting to discuss this topic on Friday May 15.
Thanks in advance for your support.
Norm
Norman C Blizard
SCSIC
<image001.png>
Laurie Frederiksen on
Bob is correct. You need to follow the procedures laid out in your partnership agreement to payout a members ownership to an estate if they pass away.
If the estate needs a valuation as of a certain date, you can give it to them, but it doesn't affect the date you use to value the account to make the final payout. Your partnership agreement controls what that date is.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
Along these lines I have a question: Our partnership agreement states that the valuation date for all withdrawals is the statement date that is subsequent to the event causing the withdrawal, be it death or voluntary withdrawal. As most statement dates are end of month, that means that a withdrawal request could occur on the 1st day of a month and would not be valued until the end of the month. We have been consistent with that clause in our partnership agreement. But. sadly, we have just had a death of a partner. Our members have pointed out that for estate purposes, the date of death is the primary required valuation date. For payout purposes, we do not have to follow that valuation date, but the estate will need to get that information somehow. Does the partnership have any responsibility for that information? I see a number of scenarios, such as our providing the estate with a list of holdings on the date of death. I also see that our partnership agreement could be changed to a "date of withdrawal/death" event determining the valuation date. How do other clubs deal with valuation dates?
So, to summarize:
Does the club have any responsibility for providing information to an estate concerning the holdings of the club for valuation determination?
How do other clubs deal with valuation dates?
Thanks in advance,
Peter Dunkelberger
Financial Partner, Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
Hello Bivio Club Cafe members. I need some opinions on a difficult topic. I currently lead our SCS Investment Club (over 20 years old) and am trying to assess the impact of 1 or more 'charter members' who are in their 80's and may withdraw at any time now. Three charter members hold 70% of the club's valuation. Is it possible to simulate the impact of their withdrawals from a capital gains/losses tax standpoint on them and the rest of the members, and what are the guidelines around partial vs complete withdrawals? A response as soon as possible is requested as we have a committee meeting to discuss this topic on Friday May 15.
Thanks in advance for your support.
Norm
Norman C Blizard
SCSIC
<image001.png>
Peter Dunkelberger on
Re: from Bob Shaw--I agree completely with what you say. I am not advocating any particular valuation process, but rather inquiring about how other clubs do the valuation. For instance, in your club's partnership agreement, the valuation date is independent of the request, as it is in our agreement. However, have you dealt with a death of a partner and what was your experience with the estate?
Peter Dunkelberger
Financial Partner, Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
Along these lines I have a question: Our partnership agreement states that the valuation date for all withdrawals is the statement date that is subsequent to the event causing the withdrawal, be it death or voluntary withdrawal. As most statement dates are end of month, that means that a withdrawal request could occur on the 1st day of a month and would not be valued until the end of the month. We have been consistent with that clause in our partnership agreement. But. sadly, we have just had a death of a partner. Our members have pointed out that for estate purposes, the date of death is the primary required valuation date. For payout purposes, we do not have to follow that valuation date, but the estate will need to get that information somehow. Does the partnership have any responsibility for that information? I see a number of scenarios, such as our providing the estate with a list of holdings on the date of death. I also see that our partnership agreement could be changed to a "date of withdrawal/death" event determining the valuation date. How do other clubs deal with valuation dates?
So, to summarize:
Does the club have any responsibility for providing information to an estate concerning the holdings of the club for valuation determination?
How do other clubs deal with valuation dates?
Thanks in advance,
Peter Dunkelberger
Financial Partner, Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
Hello Bivio Club Cafe members. I need some opinions on a difficult topic. I currently lead our SCS Investment Club (over 20 years old) and am trying to assess the impact of 1 or more 'charter members' who are in their 80's and may withdraw at any time now. Three charter members hold 70% of the club's valuation. Is it possible to simulate the impact of their withdrawals from a capital gains/losses tax standpoint on them and the rest of the members, and what are the guidelines around partial vs complete withdrawals? A response as soon as possible is requested as we have a committee meeting to discuss this topic on Friday May 15.
Thanks in advance for your support.
Norm
Norman C Blizard
SCSIC
<image001.png>
Peter Dunkelberger on
Thanks, Laurie. Yes, our partnership agreement has a specific valuation date and that date is independent of the cause for withdrawal and we have followed the partnership agreement for withdrawals. And it appears that the valuation date varies greatly between clubs. I guess my question is how our partnership is obligated to deal with the estate.
Peter Dunkelberger
Financial Partner, Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:09 AM Laurie Frederiksen <laurie@bivio.biz> wrote:
Bob is correct. You need to follow the procedures laid out in your partnership agreement to payout a members ownership to an estate if they pass away.
If the estate needs a valuation as of a certain date, you can give it to them, but it doesn't affect the date you use to value the account to make the final payout. Your partnership agreement controls what that date is.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
Along these lines I have a question: Our partnership agreement states that the valuation date for all withdrawals is the statement date that is subsequent to the event causing the withdrawal, be it death or voluntary withdrawal. As most statement dates are end of month, that means that a withdrawal request could occur on the 1st day of a month and would not be valued until the end of the month. We have been consistent with that clause in our partnership agreement. But. sadly, we have just had a death of a partner. Our members have pointed out that for estate purposes, the date of death is the primary required valuation date. For payout purposes, we do not have to follow that valuation date, but the estate will need to get that information somehow. Does the partnership have any responsibility for that information? I see a number of scenarios, such as our providing the estate with a list of holdings on the date of death. I also see that our partnership agreement could be changed to a "date of withdrawal/death" event determining the valuation date. How do other clubs deal with valuation dates?
So, to summarize:
Does the club have any responsibility for providing information to an estate concerning the holdings of the club for valuation determination?
How do other clubs deal with valuation dates?
Thanks in advance,
Peter Dunkelberger
Financial Partner, Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
Hello Bivio Club Cafe members. I need some opinions on a difficult topic. I currently lead our SCS Investment Club (over 20 years old) and am trying to assess the impact of 1 or more 'charter members' who are in their 80's and may withdraw at any time now. Three charter members hold 70% of the club's valuation. Is it possible to simulate the impact of their withdrawals from a capital gains/losses tax standpoint on them and the rest of the members, and what are the guidelines around partial vs complete withdrawals? A response as soon as possible is requested as we have a committee meeting to discuss this topic on Friday May 15.
Thanks in advance for your support.
Norm
Norman C Blizard
SCSIC
<image001.png>
Mark Eckman on
You can give the estate a valuation at any time, using any date in the Bivio valuation report. That is all the estate wants or needs. Any valuation represents the market value at a point in time, not the value the club will later distribute. The club and the estate have no other action to take.
When you perform the distribution valuation per your partnership agreement, that will determine how much you send to the estate, because the market has shifted since the previous valuation.
Re: from Bob Shaw--I agree completely with what you say. I am not advocating any particular valuation process, but rather inquiring about how other clubs do the valuation. For instance, in your club's partnership agreement, the valuation date is independent of the request, as it is in our agreement. However, have you dealt with a death of a partner and what was your experience with the estate?
Laurie Frederiksen on
Your obligation is to follow the rules set in your partnership agreement that cover the death of a member to pay the estate.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
Thanks, Laurie. Yes, our partnership agreement has a specific valuation date and that date is independent of the cause for withdrawal and we have followed the partnership agreement for withdrawals. And it appears that the valuation date varies greatly between clubs. I guess my question is how our partnership is obligated to deal with the estate.
Peter Dunkelberger
Financial Partner, Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:09 AM Laurie Frederiksen <laurie@bivio.biz> wrote:
Bob is correct. You need to follow the procedures laid out in your partnership agreement to payout a members ownership to an estate if they pass away.
If the estate needs a valuation as of a certain date, you can give it to them, but it doesn't affect the date you use to value the account to make the final payout. Your partnership agreement controls what that date is.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
Along these lines I have a question: Our partnership agreement states that the valuation date for all withdrawals is the statement date that is subsequent to the event causing the withdrawal, be it death or voluntary withdrawal. As most statement dates are end of month, that means that a withdrawal request could occur on the 1st day of a month and would not be valued until the end of the month. We have been consistent with that clause in our partnership agreement. But. sadly, we have just had a death of a partner. Our members have pointed out that for estate purposes, the date of death is the primary required valuation date. For payout purposes, we do not have to follow that valuation date, but the estate will need to get that information somehow. Does the partnership have any responsibility for that information? I see a number of scenarios, such as our providing the estate with a list of holdings on the date of death. I also see that our partnership agreement could be changed to a "date of withdrawal/death" event determining the valuation date. How do other clubs deal with valuation dates?
So, to summarize:
Does the club have any responsibility for providing information to an estate concerning the holdings of the club for valuation determination?
How do other clubs deal with valuation dates?
Thanks in advance,
Peter Dunkelberger
Financial Partner, Sumner Stock Selectors Investment Club
Hello Bivio Club Cafe members. I need some opinions on a difficult topic. I currently lead our SCS Investment Club (over 20 years old) and am trying to assess the impact of 1 or more 'charter members' who are in their 80's and may withdraw at any time now. Three charter members hold 70% of the club's valuation. Is it possible to simulate the impact of their withdrawals from a capital gains/losses tax standpoint on them and the rest of the members, and what are the guidelines around partial vs complete withdrawals? A response as soon as possible is requested as we have a committee meeting to discuss this topic on Friday May 15.
Thanks in advance for your support.
Norm
Norman C Blizard
SCSIC
<image001.png>
John Griswold on
Withdrawals are based on the number of units a member has in
the club on the date of death or the date the club receives
a request for withdrawal. How the club gets the cash and
when it pays it is another matter.