I have had further discussions with Folio about the EFT cash hold issue. I've made it all the way up to the President of the brokerage division who at least seems somewhat understanding of the potential problems the hold causes investment clubs.
However, due to the amount of fraud Folio has had to deal with lately, the discussion is closed when you get to their CEO level.
Bottom line is that there is a lot of fraud going on out there in the financial world. Bigger brokers are better able to absorb fraud losses than smaller ones like Folio. That means they may be coming down stronger on the "be cautious" side than a bigger broker would.
It's up to you to decide how you want to address this in your club. If you want to continue to use Folio as a broker, you can avoid any bounced withdrawal checks by checking your "Funds available to withdraw" on the Folio website before you write a check and give it to a member.
There is a good chance it is different than the cash balance of your account if your members use electronic bill pay to send in their payments. This may mean you have to sell additional stocks to cover the hold amount also, pay out the withdrawal in several payments or have your members stop using automatic payments to send in their withdrawals.
All of these are undesirable ways of operating for an investment club and I have communicated that fact to Folio.
But, until they figure out a way that they can be less cautious, if you use Folio as a broker, you will need to be aware of the issues anytime you want to withdraw funds from your clubs Folio account to pay a withdrawal or an expense.
I will follow up with them in any ways I can, but I don't have a lot of hope that anything will change. In the meantime, you'll just need to be aware of it and work around it in your clubs.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
Is this unique to Folio, to small brokers like them or system wide? Looking for a new broker and this is giving pause.
Kevin Gillogly
On Jan 3, 2017 12:16 PM, "Laurie Frederiksen" <laurie@bivio.biz> wrote:
Hi All,
I have had further discussions with Folio about the EFT cash hold issue. I've made it all the way up to the President of the brokerage division who at least seems somewhat understanding of the potential problems the hold causes investment clubs.
However, due to the amount of fraud Folio has had to deal with lately, the discussion is closed when you get to their CEO level.
Bottom line is that there is a lot of fraud going on out there in the financial world. Bigger brokers are better able to absorb fraud losses than smaller ones like Folio. That means they may be coming down stronger on the "be cautious" side than a bigger broker would.
It's up to you to decide how you want to address this in your club. If you want to continue to use Folio as a broker, you can avoid any bounced withdrawal checks by checking your "Funds available to withdraw" on the Folio website before you write a check and give it to a member.
There is a good chance it is different than the cash balance of your account if your members use electronic bill pay to send in their payments. This may mean you have to sell additional stocks to cover the hold amount also, pay out the withdrawal in several payments or have your members stop using automatic payments to send in their withdrawals.
All of these are undesirable ways of operating for an investment club and I have communicated that fact to Folio.
But, until they figure out a way that they can be less cautious, if you use Folio as a broker, you will need to be aware of the issues anytime you want to withdraw funds from your clubs Folio account to pay a withdrawal or an expense.
I will follow up with them in any ways I can, but I don't have a lot of hope that anything will change. In the meantime, you'll just need to be aware of it and work around it in your clubs.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
A couple of questions, is it all EFT transactions or only Bill Pay EFT transactions? Are they going to place a link on their website that will show Funds available for withdrawal on their website, or are they going to leave it as it is where it requires a calculation by the account manager to make a best guess of what they think are funds available for withdrawal? One other one, did they explain the basis for the 60 days?
Len Douglass
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Laurie Frederiksen Sent: Tuesday, January 3, 2017 1:16 PM To: The Club Cafe <club_cafe@bivio.com> Subject: [club_cafe] Folio Hold Issue
Hi All,
I have had further discussions with Folio about the EFT cash hold issue. I've made it all the way up to the President of the brokerage division who at least seems somewhat understanding of the potential problems the hold causes investment clubs.
However, due to the amount of fraud Folio has had to deal with lately, the discussion is closed when you get to their CEO level.
Bottom line is that there is a lot of fraud going on out there in the financial world. Bigger brokers are better able to absorb fraud losses than smaller ones like Folio. That means they may be coming down stronger on the "be cautious" side than a bigger broker would.
It's up to you to decide how you want to address this in your club. If you want to continue to use Folio as a broker, you can avoid any bounced withdrawal checks by checking your "Funds available to withdraw" on the Folio website before you write a check and give it to a member.
There is a good chance it is different than the cash balance of your account if your members use electronic bill pay to send in their payments. This may mean you have to sell additional stocks to cover the hold amount also, pay out the withdrawal in several payments or have your members stop using automatic payments to send in their withdrawals.
All of these are undesirable ways of operating for an investment club and I have communicated that fact to Folio.
But, until they figure out a way that they can be less cautious, if you use Folio as a broker, you will need to be aware of the issues anytime you want to withdraw funds from your clubs Folio account to pay a withdrawal or an expense.
I will follow up with them in any ways I can, but I don't have a lot of hope that anything will change. In the meantime, you'll just need to be aware of it and work around it in your clubs.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
It is probably going to be a question you'll need to ask each broker you investigate. Depending on your circumstances and the size of the brokerage, there may be different hold rules the brokerages apply.
You may want to ask both what the hold rules currently in place are and whether there are any more stringent rules being considered.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
Is this unique to Folio, to small brokers like them or system wide? Looking for a new broker and this is giving pause.
Kevin Gillogly
On Jan 3, 2017 12:16 PM, "Laurie Frederiksen" <laurie@bivio.biz> wrote:
Hi All,
I have had further discussions with Folio about the EFT cash hold issue. I've made it all the way up to the President of the brokerage division who at least seems somewhat understanding of the potential problems the hold causes investment clubs.
However, due to the amount of fraud Folio has had to deal with lately, the discussion is closed when you get to their CEO level.
Bottom line is that there is a lot of fraud going on out there in the financial world. Bigger brokers are better able to absorb fraud losses than smaller ones like Folio. That means they may be coming down stronger on the "be cautious" side than a bigger broker would.
It's up to you to decide how you want to address this in your club. If you want to continue to use Folio as a broker, you can avoid any bounced withdrawal checks by checking your "Funds available to withdraw" on the Folio website before you write a check and give it to a member.
There is a good chance it is different than the cash balance of your account if your members use electronic bill pay to send in their payments. This may mean you have to sell additional stocks to cover the hold amount also, pay out the withdrawal in several payments or have your members stop using automatic payments to send in their withdrawals.
All of these are undesirable ways of operating for an investment club and I have communicated that fact to Folio.
But, until they figure out a way that they can be less cautious, if you use Folio as a broker, you will need to be aware of the issues anytime you want to withdraw funds from your clubs Folio account to pay a withdrawal or an expense.
I will follow up with them in any ways I can, but I don't have a lot of hope that anything will change. In the meantime, you'll just need to be aware of it and work around it in your clubs.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
You can see that it could actually be more than 60 days before a bank had resolved there was an issue. Folio has decided 60 is enough to make them feel comfortable.
The rules above apply both to ACH and to Electronic Bill pay payments. One Folio person has told me their rules only apply to electronic bill pay and not to ACH payments. I'm checking on what they said. I don't even know if a club member can do an ACH payment to a club account since the ownership names on the two accounts will be different.
Finding the funds available to withdraw on the Folio site is not easy.
You have to select the "Transfer Funds" link and then click on the "Withdraw Funds" tab. On the right side is the funds available to withdraw.
Do not use the "Settled Cash" amount shown on the Summary page. That is something different. It is the amount you have available to trade. You can buy stock with it, you just can't take it all out.
I've pointed out the confusion this might cause to Folio. I'll let you know if they change anything.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
On Tue, Jan 3, 2017 at 1:34 PM, Len Douglass <pbco@comcast.net> wrote:
Thanks for being Proactive Laurie!
A couple of questions, is it all EFT transactions or only Bill Pay EFT transactions? Are they going to place a link on their website that will show Funds available for withdrawal on their website, or are they going to leave it as it is where it requires a calculation by the account manager to make a best guess of what they think are funds available for withdrawal? One other one, did they explain the basis for the 60 days?
I have had further discussions with Folio about the EFT cash hold issue. I've made it all the way up to the President of the brokerage division who at least seems somewhat understanding of the potential problems the hold causes investment clubs.
However, due to the amount of fraud Folio has had to deal with lately, the discussion is closed when you get to their CEO level.
Bottom line is that there is a lot of fraud going on out there in the financial world. Bigger brokers are better able to absorb fraud losses than smaller ones like Folio. That means they may be coming down stronger on the "be cautious" side than a bigger broker would.
It's up to you to decide how you want to address this in your club. If you want to continue to use Folio as a broker, you can avoid any bounced withdrawal checks by checking your "Funds available to withdraw" on the Folio website before you write a check and give it to a member.
There is a good chance it is different than the cash balance of your account if your members use electronic bill pay to send in their payments. This may mean you have to sell additional stocks to cover the hold amount also, pay out the withdrawal in several payments or have your members stop using automatic payments to send in their withdrawals.
All of these are undesirable ways of operating for an investment club and I have communicated that fact to Folio.
But, until they figure out a way that they can be less cautious, if you use Folio as a broker, you will need to be aware of the issues anytime you want to withdraw funds from your clubs Folio account to pay a withdrawal or an expense.
I will follow up with them in any ways I can, but I don't have a lot of hope that anything will change. In the meantime, you'll just need to be aware of it and work around it in your clubs.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
I HAVE GOOD NEWS!!! (at least for me) I finally kicked my concern up to Elissa Washburne, Manager, Customer Service Group, at Folio. I sent her an e-mail Friday and spoke with her this evening and she has agreed to release my funds (rather than hold them until 9 Feb 17). She said she would wire the balance of my withdrawal tomorrow to my Credit Union. She also said she would look into the "Hold Issue" and see what she could do. Apparently she has received other "concern" reference the hold policy. She is new to Folio and is trying to be customer oriented. Hopefully my case will not be an exception. I will keep you informed.
Mexico here I come!
Ye ole bud,....Larry
Larry Reno
-----Original Message-----
From: Laurie Frederiksen <laurie@bivio.biz>
To: The Club Cafe <club_cafe@bivio.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2017 1:35 pm
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Folio Hold Issue
It is probably going to be a question you'll need to ask each broker you investigate. Depending on your circumstances and the size of the brokerage, there may be different hold rules the brokerages apply.
You may want to ask both what the hold rules currently in place are and whether there are any more stringent rules being considered.
Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
Is this unique to Folio, to small brokers like them or system wide? Looking for a new broker and this is giving pause.
Kevin Gillogly
On Jan 3, 2017 12:16 PM, "Laurie Frederiksen" <laurie@bivio.biz> wrote:
Hi All,
I have had further discussions with Folio about the EFT cash hold issue. I've made it all the way up to the President of the brokerage division who at least seems somewhat understanding of the potential problems the hold causes investment clubs.
However, due to the amount of fraud Folio has had to deal with lately, the discussion is closed when you get to their CEO level.
Bottom line is that there is a lot of fraud going on out there in the financial world. Bigger brokers are better able to absorb fraud losses than smaller ones like Folio. That means they may be coming down stronger on the "be cautious" side than a bigger broker would.
It's up to you to decide how you want to address this in your club. If you want to continue to use Folio as a broker, you can avoid any bounced withdrawal checks by checking your "Funds available to withdraw" on the Folio website before you write a check and give it to a member.
There is a good chance it is different than the cash balance of your account if your members use electronic bill pay to send in their payments. This may mean you have to sell additional stocks to cover the hold amount also, pay out the withdrawal in several payments or have your members stop using automatic payments to send in their withdrawals.
All of these are undesirable ways of operating for an investment club and I have communicated that fact to Folio.
But, until they figure out a way that they can be less cautious, if you use Folio as a broker, you will need to be aware of the issues anytime you want to withdraw funds from your clubs Folio account to pay a withdrawal or an expense.
I will follow up with them in any ways I can, but I don't have a lot of hope that anything will change. In the meantime, you'll just need to be aware of it and work around it in your clubs.
Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com