Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
After one of our members passed away back in April, our club
selected a stock to transfer to his brokerage account in
accordance with our partnership agreement. When we
attempted to coordinate the transfer, his broker told us
that the executor must open an estate account in the name of
the deceased before we can make the transfer. His executor
(his son) only replied once to an email message saying he
will get back to us. We have no address except for the
deceased member. What have other clubs done when an
executor fails to cooperate? How long can we have a pending
withdrawal on our books before we must take some alternative
action and what action should we take? Will we have trouble
with our K-1s if this transaction is not concluded by the
end of the year? My best guess is that as a practical
matter we must rescind our withdrawal plan and mail a check
payable to the estate to the address of the deceased member
before the end of the year. Our club is organized as a
general partnership in the State of California.
selected a stock to transfer to his brokerage account in
accordance with our partnership agreement. When we
attempted to coordinate the transfer, his broker told us
that the executor must open an estate account in the name of
the deceased before we can make the transfer. His executor
(his son) only replied once to an email message saying he
will get back to us. We have no address except for the
deceased member. What have other clubs done when an
executor fails to cooperate? How long can we have a pending
withdrawal on our books before we must take some alternative
action and what action should we take? Will we have trouble
with our K-1s if this transaction is not concluded by the
end of the year? My best guess is that as a practical
matter we must rescind our withdrawal plan and mail a check
payable to the estate to the address of the deceased member
before the end of the year. Our club is organized as a
general partnership in the State of California.
Our (model) club had a member pass. We chose to sell and send a check, both because the widow would find cash helpful and the ease of the transaction (versus setting up a stock account for a deceased person). The member himself would have been horrified at our choice as in life, he was all about stock transfers for departures.
In my opinion, all cash is best. With all an executor has going on, a check is sure to get cashed (if made out appropriately).
Be Well. Irina Sent from my iPad
> On Sep 10, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Jan M Peterson Ttee <mikaelpeterson@att.net> wrote:
>
> After one of our members passed away back in April, our club
> selected a stock to transfer to his brokerage account in
> accordance with our partnership agreement. When we
> attempted to coordinate the transfer, his broker told us
> that the executor must open an estate account in the name of
> the deceased before we can make the transfer. His executor
> (his son) only replied once to an email message saying he
> will get back to us. We have no address except for the
> deceased member. What have other clubs done when an
> executor fails to cooperate? How long can we have a pending
> withdrawal on our books before we must take some alternative
> action and what action should we take? Will we have trouble
> with our K-1s if this transaction is not concluded by the
> end of the year? My best guess is that as a practical
> matter we must rescind our withdrawal plan and mail a check
> payable to the estate to the address of the deceased member
> before the end of the year. Our club is organized as a
> general partnership in the State of California.
In my opinion, all cash is best. With all an executor has going on, a check is sure to get cashed (if made out appropriately).
Be Well. Irina Sent from my iPad
> On Sep 10, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Jan M Peterson Ttee <mikaelpeterson@att.net> wrote:
>
> After one of our members passed away back in April, our club
> selected a stock to transfer to his brokerage account in
> accordance with our partnership agreement. When we
> attempted to coordinate the transfer, his broker told us
> that the executor must open an estate account in the name of
> the deceased before we can make the transfer. His executor
> (his son) only replied once to an email message saying he
> will get back to us. We have no address except for the
> deceased member. What have other clubs done when an
> executor fails to cooperate? How long can we have a pending
> withdrawal on our books before we must take some alternative
> action and what action should we take? Will we have trouble
> with our K-1s if this transaction is not concluded by the
> end of the year? My best guess is that as a practical
> matter we must rescind our withdrawal plan and mail a check
> payable to the estate to the address of the deceased member
> before the end of the year. Our club is organized as a
> general partnership in the State of California.
My club is dealing with this right now. In all probability
we will do it with cash. Perhaps the best motto here is "do
onto others as you would have them do onto your heirs."
In a perfect world all club members would think this through
ahead of time and have a discussion with their future
executor and family members about the potential of a stock
transfer which could occur in the event of their death. But,
in the real world it is probably kinder to transfer cash.
Clubs with significant sized portfolios with large
unrealized gains could have a discussion about this before
anyone dies so each member can plan accordingly.
Linda Glein
we will do it with cash. Perhaps the best motto here is "do
onto others as you would have them do onto your heirs."
In a perfect world all club members would think this through
ahead of time and have a discussion with their future
executor and family members about the potential of a stock
transfer which could occur in the event of their death. But,
in the real world it is probably kinder to transfer cash.
Clubs with significant sized portfolios with large
unrealized gains could have a discussion about this before
anyone dies so each member can plan accordingly.
Linda Glein
Good idea, Linda
Diane Ellison
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Linda
Glein
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 3:25 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: [club_cafe] Re: Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
My club is dealing with this right now. In all probability we will do it
with cash. Perhaps the best motto here is "do onto others as you would have
them do onto your heirs."
In a perfect world all club members would think this through ahead of time
and have a discussion with their future executor and family members about
the potential of a stock transfer which could occur in the event of their
death. But, in the real world it is probably kinder to transfer cash.
Clubs with significant sized portfolios with large unrealized gains could
have a discussion about this before anyone dies so each member can plan
accordingly.
Linda Glein
Diane Ellison
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Linda
Glein
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 3:25 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: [club_cafe] Re: Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
My club is dealing with this right now. In all probability we will do it
with cash. Perhaps the best motto here is "do onto others as you would have
them do onto your heirs."
In a perfect world all club members would think this through ahead of time
and have a discussion with their future executor and family members about
the potential of a stock transfer which could occur in the event of their
death. But, in the real world it is probably kinder to transfer cash.
Clubs with significant sized portfolios with large unrealized gains could
have a discussion about this before anyone dies so each member can plan
accordingly.
Linda Glein
In a perfect world the deceased member's executor should set up an account
titled something like "Estate of John Smith" with a federal ID # and a check
should be written to the estate. That is simpler than transferring stock.
Someone with access to Bivio should also provide the executor with the unit
value times the # of shares on the date of death so that there is a basis
for any gain as of the withdrawal date.
Linda Wiltse
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Jan M
Peterson Ttee
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 5:16 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
After one of our members passed away back in April, our club selected a
stock to transfer to his brokerage account in accordance with our
partnership agreement. When we attempted to coordinate the transfer, his
broker told us that the executor must open an estate account in the name of
the deceased before we can make the transfer. His executor (his son) only
replied once to an email message saying he will get back to us. We have no
address except for the deceased member. What have other clubs done when an
executor fails to cooperate? How long can we have a pending withdrawal on
our books before we must take some alternative action and what action should
we take? Will we have trouble with our K-1s if this transaction is not
concluded by the end of the year? My best guess is that as a practical
matter we must rescind our withdrawal plan and mail a check payable to the
estate to the address of the deceased member before the end of the year.
Our club is organized as a general partnership in the State of California.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
titled something like "Estate of John Smith" with a federal ID # and a check
should be written to the estate. That is simpler than transferring stock.
Someone with access to Bivio should also provide the executor with the unit
value times the # of shares on the date of death so that there is a basis
for any gain as of the withdrawal date.
Linda Wiltse
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Jan M
Peterson Ttee
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 5:16 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
After one of our members passed away back in April, our club selected a
stock to transfer to his brokerage account in accordance with our
partnership agreement. When we attempted to coordinate the transfer, his
broker told us that the executor must open an estate account in the name of
the deceased before we can make the transfer. His executor (his son) only
replied once to an email message saying he will get back to us. We have no
address except for the deceased member. What have other clubs done when an
executor fails to cooperate? How long can we have a pending withdrawal on
our books before we must take some alternative action and what action should
we take? Will we have trouble with our K-1s if this transaction is not
concluded by the end of the year? My best guess is that as a practical
matter we must rescind our withdrawal plan and mail a check payable to the
estate to the address of the deceased member before the end of the year.
Our club is organized as a general partnership in the State of California.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Transferring cash will be the easiest thing for a club to do if the cash funds are available. But another question is if the club has to sell some of the stocks to generate the cash than the questions are..........
Who should pay tax?
When club sells the stock, every member will pay tax on prorated capital gain if any but if the stocks are transferred as part of the member's withdrawal and than sold by the estate than only estate will pay tax.
Any member has different information or understanding than please share.
Sent from my iPhone
Bharat Bhatt
> On Sep 10, 2016, at 9:59 PM, Linda Wiltse <wiltse@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> In a perfect world the deceased member's executor should set up an account
> titled something like "Estate of John Smith" with a federal ID # and a check
> should be written to the estate. That is simpler than transferring stock.
> Someone with access to Bivio should also provide the executor with the unit
> value times the # of shares on the date of death so that there is a basis
> for any gain as of the withdrawal date.
> Linda Wiltse
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Jan M
> Peterson Ttee
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 5:16 PM
> To: club_cafe@bivio.com
> Subject: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
>
> After one of our members passed away back in April, our club selected a
> stock to transfer to his brokerage account in accordance with our
> partnership agreement. When we attempted to coordinate the transfer, his
> broker told us that the executor must open an estate account in the name of
> the deceased before we can make the transfer. His executor (his son) only
> replied once to an email message saying he will get back to us. We have no
> address except for the deceased member. What have other clubs done when an
> executor fails to cooperate? How long can we have a pending withdrawal on
> our books before we must take some alternative action and what action should
> we take? Will we have trouble with our K-1s if this transaction is not
> concluded by the end of the year? My best guess is that as a practical
> matter we must rescind our withdrawal plan and mail a check payable to the
> estate to the address of the deceased member before the end of the year.
> Our club is organized as a general partnership in the State of California.
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
Who should pay tax?
When club sells the stock, every member will pay tax on prorated capital gain if any but if the stocks are transferred as part of the member's withdrawal and than sold by the estate than only estate will pay tax.
Any member has different information or understanding than please share.
Sent from my iPhone
Bharat Bhatt
> On Sep 10, 2016, at 9:59 PM, Linda Wiltse <wiltse@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> In a perfect world the deceased member's executor should set up an account
> titled something like "Estate of John Smith" with a federal ID # and a check
> should be written to the estate. That is simpler than transferring stock.
> Someone with access to Bivio should also provide the executor with the unit
> value times the # of shares on the date of death so that there is a basis
> for any gain as of the withdrawal date.
> Linda Wiltse
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Jan M
> Peterson Ttee
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 5:16 PM
> To: club_cafe@bivio.com
> Subject: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
>
> After one of our members passed away back in April, our club selected a
> stock to transfer to his brokerage account in accordance with our
> partnership agreement. When we attempted to coordinate the transfer, his
> broker told us that the executor must open an estate account in the name of
> the deceased before we can make the transfer. His executor (his son) only
> replied once to an email message saying he will get back to us. We have no
> address except for the deceased member. What have other clubs done when an
> executor fails to cooperate? How long can we have a pending withdrawal on
> our books before we must take some alternative action and what action should
> we take? Will we have trouble with our K-1s if this transaction is not
> concluded by the end of the year? My best guess is that as a practical
> matter we must rescind our withdrawal plan and mail a check payable to the
> estate to the address of the deceased member before the end of the year.
> Our club is organized as a general partnership in the State of California.
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
No, it's not a matter of who will pay the taxes. It's a
matter of controlling when each member pays their fair share
of the taxes.
matter of controlling when each member pays their fair share
of the taxes.
Your understanding is wrong. If the club sells stock every member will pay tax on prorated capital gain. That part is correct. If the club transfers stock, the remaining members defer paying tax on their share of the transferred gain until each of them withdraws from the club. Instead of paying now, their capital gain in the withdrawal report will be larger by the amount of gain deferred.
As for the deceased member, if the club transfers stock to the estate, the estate's capital gain when the stock is sold is based on the difference between the deceased member's tax basis in the club, not the club's cost basis in the stock, and the value of the stock sold. If the club sells stock to fund the withdrawal, the deceased member's tax basis in the club is increased by the prorated amount of the gain shown in the final K-1. The total gain reported between the K-1 and withdrawal report doesn't change.
Note that the preceding is a bit oversimplified as there are some special considerations that need to be addressed by the executor of the Estate that will impact the Estate's tax reporting, but which have no impact on the club.
Ira Smilovitz
On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Bharat Bhatt <bbhatt978@gmail.com> wrote:
Transferring cash will be the easiest thing for a club to do if the cash funds are available. But another question is if the club has to sell some of the stocks to generate the cash than the questions are..........
Who should pay tax?
When club sells the stock, every member will pay tax on prorated capital gain if any but if the stocks are transferred as part of the member's withdrawal and than sold by the estate than only estate will pay tax.
Any member has different information or understanding than please share.
Sent from my iPhone
Bharat Bhatt
> On Sep 10, 2016, at 9:59 PM, Linda Wiltse <wiltse@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> In a perfect world the deceased member's executor should set up an account
> titled something like "Estate of John Smith" with a federal ID # and a check
> should be written to the estate. That is simpler than transferring stock.
> Someone with access to Bivio should also provide the executor with the unit
> value times the # of shares on the date of death so that there is a basis
> for any gain as of the withdrawal date.
> Linda Wiltse
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Jan M
> Peterson Ttee
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 5:16 PM
> To: club_cafe@bivio.com
> Subject: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
>
> After one of our members passed away back in April, our club selected a
> stock to transfer to his brokerage account in accordance with our
> partnership agreement. When we attempted to coordinate the transfer, his
> broker told us that the executor must open an estate account in the name of
> the deceased before we can make the transfer. His executor (his son) only
> replied once to an email message saying he will get back to us. We have no
> address except for the deceased member. What have other clubs done when an
> executor fails to cooperate? How long can we have a pending withdrawal on
> our books before we must take some alternative action and what action should
> we take? Will we have trouble with our K-1s if this transaction is not
> concluded by the end of the year? My best guess is that as a practical
> matter we must rescind our withdrawal plan and mail a check payable to the
> estate to the address of the deceased member before the end of the year.
> Our club is organized as a general partnership in the State of California.
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/
>
Linda, there is no such thing as "controlling when each member pays their fair share of the taxes". No matter what they do everyone will pay their "fair share" of taxes. As Ira said what they do will determine when each person will pay their tax.
John Rice
On Sunday, September 11, 2016 8:38 AM, ira smilovitz <ira.smilovitz@gmail.com> wrote:
Your understanding is wrong. If the club sells stock every member will pay tax on prorated capital gain. That part is correct. If the club transfers stock, the remaining members defer paying tax on their share of the transferred gain until each of them withdraws from the club. Instead of paying now, their capital gain in the withdrawal report will be larger by the amount of gain deferred.
As for the deceased member, if the club transfers stock to the estate, the estate's capital gain when the stock is sold is based on the difference between the deceased member's tax basis in the club, not the club's cost basis in the stock, and the value of the stock sold. If the club sells stock to fund the withdrawal, the deceased member's tax basis in the club is increased by the prorated amount of the gain shown in the final K-1. The total gain reported between the K-1 and withdrawal report doesn't change.
Note that the preceding is a bit oversimplified as there are some special considerations that need to be addressed by the executor of the Estate that will impact the Estate's tax reporting, but which have no impact on the club.
Ira Smilovitz
On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Bharat Bhatt <bbhatt978@gmail.com> wrote:
Transferring cash will be the easiest thing for a club to do if the cash funds are available. But another question is if the club has to sell some of the stocks to generate the cash than the questions are..........
Who should pay tax?
When club sells the stock, every member will pay tax on prorated capital gain if any but if the stocks are transferred as part of the member's withdrawal and than sold by the estate than only estate will pay tax.
Any member has different information or understanding than please share.
Sent from my iPhone
Bharat Bhatt
> On Sep 10, 2016, at 9:59 PM, Linda Wiltse <wiltse@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> In a perfect world the deceased member's executor should set up an account
> titled something like "Estate of John Smith" with a federal ID # and a check
> should be written to the estate. That is simpler than transferring stock.
> Someone with access to Bivio should also provide the executor with the unit
> value times the # of shares on the date of death so that there is a basis
> for any gain as of the withdrawal date.
> Linda Wiltse
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Jan M
> Peterson Ttee
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 5:16 PM
> To: club_cafe@bivio.com
> Subject: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
>
> After one of our members passed away back in April, our club selected a
> stock to transfer to his brokerage account in accordance with our
> partnership agreement. When we attempted to coordinate the transfer, his
> broker told us that the executor must open an estate account in the name of
> the deceased before we can make the transfer. His executor (his son) only
> replied once to an email message saying he will get back to us. We have no
> address except for the deceased member. What have other clubs done when an
> executor fails to cooperate? How long can we have a pending withdrawal on
> our books before we must take some alternative action and what action should
> we take? Will we have trouble with our K-1s if this transaction is not
> concluded by the end of the year? My best guess is that as a practical
> matter we must rescind our withdrawal plan and mail a check payable to the
> estate to the address of the deceased member before the end of the year.
> Our club is organized as a general partnership in the State of California.
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/ antivirus
>
John,
That's exactly what I said, or meant to say. Everyone will
pay, sooner or later. The gains will be distributed in an
equitable manner. The only reason to transfer stock is to
give some measure of control of the timing to the
individuals.
Some people still seem to think that the departed member
will be stuck with an inequitable responsibility for paying
tax on the gain.
If my wording somehow implied something else, I apologize.
That's exactly what I said, or meant to say. Everyone will
pay, sooner or later. The gains will be distributed in an
equitable manner. The only reason to transfer stock is to
give some measure of control of the timing to the
individuals.
Some people still seem to think that the departed member
will be stuck with an inequitable responsibility for paying
tax on the gain.
If my wording somehow implied something else, I apologize.
I would advise everyone to stop worrying so much about tax implications. If that bothers you, sell stocks with a loss, sell stocks that you feel have less upside potential, or sell stocks with long term gains that have a lower tax bite.
Linda Wiltse
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of rice.j1969@att.net
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 12:35 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
Linda, there is no such thing as "controlling when each member pays their fair share of the taxes". No matter what they do everyone will pay their "fair share" of taxes. As Ira said what they do will determine when each person will pay their tax.
John Rice
On Sunday, September 11, 2016 8:38 AM, ira smilovitz <ira.smilovitz@gmail.com> wrote:
Your understanding is wrong. If the club sells stock every member will pay tax on prorated capital gain. That part is correct. If the club transfers stock, the remaining members defer paying tax on their share of the transferred gain until each of them withdraws from the club. Instead of paying now, their capital gain in the withdrawal report will be larger by the amount of gain deferred.
As for the deceased member, if the club transfers stock to the estate, the estate's capital gain when the stock is sold is based on the difference between the deceased member's tax basis in the club, not the club's cost basis in the stock, and the value of the stock sold. If the club sells stock to fund the withdrawal, the deceased member's tax basis in the club is increased by the prorated amount of the gain shown in the final K-1. The total gain reported between the K-1 and withdrawal report doesn't change.
Note that the preceding is a bit oversimplified as there are some special considerations that need to be addressed by the executor of the Estate that will impact the Estate's tax reporting, but which have no impact on the club.
Ira Smilovitz
On Sun, Sep 11, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Bharat Bhatt <bbhatt978@gmail.com> wrote:
Transferring cash will be the easiest thing for a club to do if the cash funds are available. But another question is if the club has to sell some of the stocks to generate the cash than the questions are..........
Who should pay tax?
When club sells the stock, every member will pay tax on prorated capital gain if any but if the stocks are transferred as part of the member's withdrawal and than sold by the estate than only estate will pay tax.
Any member has different information or understanding than please share.
Sent from my iPhone
Bharat Bhatt
> On Sep 10, 2016, at 9:59 PM, Linda Wiltse <wiltse@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> In a perfect world the deceased member's executor should set up an account
> titled something like "Estate of John Smith" with a federal ID # and a check
> should be written to the estate. That is simpler than transferring stock.
> Someone with access to Bivio should also provide the executor with the unit
> value times the # of shares on the date of death so that there is a basis
> for any gain as of the withdrawal date.
> Linda Wiltse
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Jan M
> Peterson Ttee
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 5:16 PM
> To: club_cafe@bivio.com
> Subject: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
>
> After one of our members passed away back in April, our club selected a
> stock to transfer to his brokerage account in accordance with our
> partnership agreement. When we attempted to coordinate the transfer, his
> broker told us that the executor must open an estate account in the name of
> the deceased before we can make the transfer. His executor (his son) only
> replied once to an email message saying he will get back to us. We have no
> address except for the deceased member. What have other clubs done when an
> executor fails to cooperate? How long can we have a pending withdrawal on
> our books before we must take some alternative action and what action should
> we take? Will we have trouble with our K-1s if this transaction is not
> concluded by the end of the year? My best guess is that as a practical
> matter we must rescind our withdrawal plan and mail a check payable to the
> estate to the address of the deceased member before the end of the year.
> Our club is organized as a general partnership in the State of California.
>
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/ antivirus
>
|
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
|
With all due respect to Linda, I can't agree with the last sentence. When
your treasurer processes a withdrawal in Bivio they will be generating a
withdrawal report that identifies the member's basis before withdrawal, the
current Income Allocation, and calculates the members adjusted basis on the
withdrawal date [which should be the date of death]. Then it calculates the
Gain/(loss) to be reported to the IRS. A copy of the withdrawal report
should be included with the check. When the treasurer prepares the 1065
Club Tax Return at the end of the year a K1 for the deceased member will be
included along with a potentially adjusted Withdrawal Report to be furnished
to the executor of the estate along with the K1 Partnership Report.
Having "SOMEONE" get involved in the process I would strongly object too!
That could be totally confusing and could cause issues with the IRS
over the estate tax return if the information provided by "SOMEONE" is
incorrect. Let the treasurer perform their duties! [isn't that why you pay
them the big bucks, GRIN].
Len Douglass
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Linda
Wiltse
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 9:59 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: RE: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
In a perfect world the deceased member's executor should set up an account
titled something like "Estate of John Smith" with a federal ID # and a check
should be written to the estate. That is simpler than transferring stock.
Someone with access to Bivio should also provide the executor with the unit
value times the # of shares on the date of death so that there is a basis
for any gain as of the withdrawal date.
Linda Wiltse
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Jan M
Peterson Ttee
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 5:16 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
After one of our members passed away back in April, our club selected a
stock to transfer to his brokerage account in accordance with our
partnership agreement. When we attempted to coordinate the transfer, his
broker told us that the executor must open an estate account in the name of
the deceased before we can make the transfer. His executor (his son) only
replied once to an email message saying he will get back to us. We have no
address except for the deceased member. What have other clubs done when an
executor fails to cooperate? How long can we have a pending withdrawal on
our books before we must take some alternative action and what action should
we take? Will we have trouble with our K-1s if this transaction is not
concluded by the end of the year? My best guess is that as a practical
matter we must rescind our withdrawal plan and mail a check payable to the
estate to the address of the deceased member before the end of the year.
Our club is organized as a general partnership in the State of California.
---
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your treasurer processes a withdrawal in Bivio they will be generating a
withdrawal report that identifies the member's basis before withdrawal, the
current Income Allocation, and calculates the members adjusted basis on the
withdrawal date [which should be the date of death]. Then it calculates the
Gain/(loss) to be reported to the IRS. A copy of the withdrawal report
should be included with the check. When the treasurer prepares the 1065
Club Tax Return at the end of the year a K1 for the deceased member will be
included along with a potentially adjusted Withdrawal Report to be furnished
to the executor of the estate along with the K1 Partnership Report.
Having "SOMEONE" get involved in the process I would strongly object too!
That could be totally confusing and could cause issues with the IRS
over the estate tax return if the information provided by "SOMEONE" is
incorrect. Let the treasurer perform their duties! [isn't that why you pay
them the big bucks, GRIN].
Len Douglass
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Linda
Wiltse
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 9:59 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: RE: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
In a perfect world the deceased member's executor should set up an account
titled something like "Estate of John Smith" with a federal ID # and a check
should be written to the estate. That is simpler than transferring stock.
Someone with access to Bivio should also provide the executor with the unit
value times the # of shares on the date of death so that there is a basis
for any gain as of the withdrawal date.
Linda Wiltse
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Jan M
Peterson Ttee
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 5:16 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
After one of our members passed away back in April, our club selected a
stock to transfer to his brokerage account in accordance with our
partnership agreement. When we attempted to coordinate the transfer, his
broker told us that the executor must open an estate account in the name of
the deceased before we can make the transfer. His executor (his son) only
replied once to an email message saying he will get back to us. We have no
address except for the deceased member. What have other clubs done when an
executor fails to cooperate? How long can we have a pending withdrawal on
our books before we must take some alternative action and what action should
we take? Will we have trouble with our K-1s if this transaction is not
concluded by the end of the year? My best guess is that as a practical
matter we must rescind our withdrawal plan and mail a check payable to the
estate to the address of the deceased member before the end of the year.
Our club is organized as a general partnership in the State of California.
---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus
The withdrawal does not necessarily occur on the date of death, although you
could back-date it to the date of death. That is why I suggested getting a
value on the date of death for the estate. When I said "somebody", I meant
either the treasurer or president of the club - someone with full access to
Bivio.
I do not know if a stepped up basis is used when the estate is processing
the "sale" of the units.
Linda
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Len
Douglass
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 1:43 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: RE: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
With all due respect to Linda, I can't agree with the last sentence. When
your treasurer processes a withdrawal in Bivio they will be generating a
withdrawal report that identifies the member's basis before withdrawal, the
current Income Allocation, and calculates the members adjusted basis on the
withdrawal date [which should be the date of death]. Then it calculates the
Gain/(loss) to be reported to the IRS. A copy of the withdrawal report
should be included with the check. When the treasurer prepares the 1065
Club Tax Return at the end of the year a K1 for the deceased member will be
included along with a potentially adjusted Withdrawal Report to be furnished
to the executor of the estate along with the K1 Partnership Report.
Having "SOMEONE" get involved in the process I would strongly object too!
That could be totally confusing and could cause issues with the IRS over the
estate tax return if the information provided by "SOMEONE" is incorrect.
Let the treasurer perform their duties! [isn't that why you pay them the big
bucks, GRIN].
Len Douglass
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Linda
Wiltse
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 9:59 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: RE: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
In a perfect world the deceased member's executor should set up an account
titled something like "Estate of John Smith" with a federal ID # and a check
should be written to the estate. That is simpler than transferring stock.
Someone with access to Bivio should also provide the executor with the unit
value times the # of shares on the date of death so that there is a basis
for any gain as of the withdrawal date.
Linda Wiltse
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Jan M
Peterson Ttee
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 5:16 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
After one of our members passed away back in April, our club selected a
stock to transfer to his brokerage account in accordance with our
partnership agreement. When we attempted to coordinate the transfer, his
broker told us that the executor must open an estate account in the name of
the deceased before we can make the transfer. His executor (his son) only
replied once to an email message saying he will get back to us. We have no
address except for the deceased member. What have other clubs done when an
executor fails to cooperate? How long can we have a pending withdrawal on
our books before we must take some alternative action and what action should
we take? Will we have trouble with our K-1s if this transaction is not
concluded by the end of the year? My best guess is that as a practical
matter we must rescind our withdrawal plan and mail a check payable to the
estate to the address of the deceased member before the end of the year.
Our club is organized as a general partnership in the State of California.
---
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could back-date it to the date of death. That is why I suggested getting a
value on the date of death for the estate. When I said "somebody", I meant
either the treasurer or president of the club - someone with full access to
Bivio.
I do not know if a stepped up basis is used when the estate is processing
the "sale" of the units.
Linda
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Len
Douglass
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2016 1:43 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: RE: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
With all due respect to Linda, I can't agree with the last sentence. When
your treasurer processes a withdrawal in Bivio they will be generating a
withdrawal report that identifies the member's basis before withdrawal, the
current Income Allocation, and calculates the members adjusted basis on the
withdrawal date [which should be the date of death]. Then it calculates the
Gain/(loss) to be reported to the IRS. A copy of the withdrawal report
should be included with the check. When the treasurer prepares the 1065
Club Tax Return at the end of the year a K1 for the deceased member will be
included along with a potentially adjusted Withdrawal Report to be furnished
to the executor of the estate along with the K1 Partnership Report.
Having "SOMEONE" get involved in the process I would strongly object too!
That could be totally confusing and could cause issues with the IRS over the
estate tax return if the information provided by "SOMEONE" is incorrect.
Let the treasurer perform their duties! [isn't that why you pay them the big
bucks, GRIN].
Len Douglass
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Linda
Wiltse
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 9:59 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: RE: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
In a perfect world the deceased member's executor should set up an account
titled something like "Estate of John Smith" with a federal ID # and a check
should be written to the estate. That is simpler than transferring stock.
Someone with access to Bivio should also provide the executor with the unit
value times the # of shares on the date of death so that there is a basis
for any gain as of the withdrawal date.
Linda Wiltse
-----Original Message-----
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Jan M
Peterson Ttee
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2016 5:16 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: [club_cafe] Withdrawal of a Deceased Member
After one of our members passed away back in April, our club selected a
stock to transfer to his brokerage account in accordance with our
partnership agreement. When we attempted to coordinate the transfer, his
broker told us that the executor must open an estate account in the name of
the deceased before we can make the transfer. His executor (his son) only
replied once to an email message saying he will get back to us. We have no
address except for the deceased member. What have other clubs done when an
executor fails to cooperate? How long can we have a pending withdrawal on
our books before we must take some alternative action and what action should
we take? Will we have trouble with our K-1s if this transaction is not
concluded by the end of the year? My best guess is that as a practical
matter we must rescind our withdrawal plan and mail a check payable to the
estate to the address of the deceased member before the end of the year.
Our club is organized as a general partnership in the State of California.
---
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