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Inv. question
Not without additional info manually entered.


Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S(R)4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Deep Shikha <dshikha@stkate.edu>
Date:07/23/2015 6:06 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Cc:
Subject: [club_cafe] Inv. question

I am sure it has been discussed before, but I was wondering if bivio software can handle REIT investments.

Deep Shikha

To keep your club record keeping as simple as possible, we recommend that you don't invest in REIT's in your club.

The reason we caution against REIT's is because they bring along with them a lot of extra work and complications for club treasurers.

If you search our site for REIT, you will find many discussions about the issues they bring.

Basically, their distributions get reclassified after the end of the year into 3 or 4 different categories. You won't know what those are until you get your 1099 and they will require manual adjustments to each dividend entry that was made during the year.

REIT's have to close out their own tax years before they can determine the dividend reclassification amounts. This means, at best that you will get the information on your 1099 forms but will have to wait at least until the middle of February (if not later at places like Folio), to get it. It is sometimes also available on the REIT websites, but in my experience, most clubs don't really understand how to get or use it and trying to help them do so overwhelms many.

Some REIT"s however don't have a calendar based tax year. That means that correct information is not available until later in the year, necessitating amended 1099 forms and amended tax forms, or at best late adjusted tax records. Many clubs miss making these adjustments.

In the world of cost basis reporting this then causes a problem, sometimes many years later when you sell a stock. If you've been doing DRIP or "Folio" investing, it can take a lot to untangle to be able to match 1099 capital gains reporting when you have a sale.

REIT's by law are supposed to pass through all of their capital gains. If, for some reason, after they close their books, they haven't done this, they may later revise their distribution information and issue a form 2439 requiring more complicated accounting adjustments at some point later in the year. Fortunately this happens rarely but it does happen.

So REIT's add a layer of complication to club accounting that we recommend you stay away from if you want to keep things simple.

I have experience with many many treasurers working through the end of year adjustments who tell me they are going to tell their clubs to "Sell the REIT asap" and not buy any more in the future.

Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends!
www.bivio.com

Become our Facebook friend! www.facebook.com/bivio
Follow us on twitter! www.twitter.com/bivio
Follow Us on Google+

Click here to Subscribe to the Club Cafe email list. Click here to Unsubscribe



On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Linda <wiltse@optonline.net> wrote:
Not without additional info manually entered.


Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S(R)4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Deep Shikha <dshikha@stkate.edu>
Date:07/23/2015 6:06 PM (GMT-05:00)
Cc:
Subject: [club_cafe] Inv. question

I am sure it has been discussed before, but I was wondering if bivio software can handle REIT investments.

Deep Shikha

What are thoughts about REIT ETF like VNQ or IYR? 
i buy and sell those in individual account without any complications. 


-----Original Message-----
From: laurie@bivio.biz
Sent: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:20:59 -0400
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Inv. question

To keep your club record keeping as simple as possible,  we recommend that you don't invest in REIT's in your club.

The reason we caution against REIT's is because they bring along with them a lot of extra work and complications for club treasurers.

If you search our site for REIT,  you will find many discussions about the issues they bring.

Basically, their distributions get reclassified after the end of the year into 3 or 4 different categories.  You won't know what those are until you get your 1099 and they will require manual adjustments to each dividend entry that was made during the year.

REIT's have to close out their own tax years before they can determine the dividend reclassification amounts.  This means, at best that you will get the information on your 1099 forms but will have to wait at least until the middle of February (if not later at places like Folio),  to get it.  It is sometimes also available on the REIT websites, but in my experience,  most clubs don't really understand how to get or use it and trying to help them do so overwhelms many.

Some REIT"s however don't have a calendar based tax year.  That means that correct information is not available until later in the year, necessitating amended 1099 forms and amended tax forms, or at best late adjusted tax records.  Many clubs miss making these adjustments.

In the world of cost basis reporting this then causes a problem,  sometimes many years later when you sell a stock. If you've been doing DRIP or "Folio" investing,  it can take a lot to untangle to be able to match 1099 capital gains reporting when you have a sale.

REIT's by law are supposed to pass through all of their capital gains.  If, for some reason, after they close their books,  they haven't done this, they may later revise their distribution information and issue a form 2439 requiring more complicated accounting adjustments at some point later in the year.  Fortunately this happens rarely but it does happen.

So REIT's add a layer of complication to club accounting that we recommend you stay away from if you want to keep things simple. 

I have experience with many many treasurers working through the end of year adjustments who tell me they are going to tell their clubs to "Sell the REIT asap" and not buy any more in the future.

Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends!
www.bivio.com

Become our Facebook friend!  www.facebook.com/bivio
Follow us on twitter!  www.twitter.com/bivio
Follow Us on Google+

Click here to Subscribe to the Club Cafe email list.  Click here to  Unsubscribe



On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Linda <wiltse@optonline.net> wrote:
Not without additional info manually entered.


Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S(R)4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Deep Shikha <dshikha@stkate.edu>
Date:07/23/2015 6:06 PM (GMT-05:00)
Cc:
Subject: [club_cafe] Inv. question

I am sure it has been discussed before, but I was wondering if bivio software can handle REIT investments.

Deep Shikha


Can't remember your password? Do you need a strong and secure password? Use Password manager! It stores your passwords & protects your account.
REITs are fine if you invest them in your personal account. For an investment club it is highly discourage due to the additional complexity of preparing taxes for the club. 

John



On Monday, July 27, 2015 1:52 PM, raka maka <rakamaka@inbox.com> wrote:


What are thoughts about REIT ETF like VNQ or IYR? 
i buy and sell those in individual account without any complications. 


-----Original Message-----
From: laurie@bivio.biz
Sent: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:20:59 -0400
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Inv. question

To keep your club record keeping as simple as possible,  we recommend that you don't invest in REIT's in your club.

The reason we caution against REIT's is because they bring along with them a lot of extra work and complications for club treasurers.

If you search our site for REIT,  you will find many discussions about the issues they bring.

Basically, their distributions get reclassified after the end of the year into 3 or 4 different categories.  You won't know what those are until you get your 1099 and they will require manual adjustments to each dividend entry that was made during the year.

REIT's have to close out their own tax years before they can determine the dividend reclassification amounts.  This means, at best that you will get the information on your 1099 forms but will have to wait at least until the middle of February (if not later at places like Folio),  to get it.  It is sometimes also available on the REIT websites, but in my experience,  most clubs don't really understand how to get or use it and trying to help them do so overwhelms many.

Some REIT"s however don't have a calendar based tax year.  That means that correct information is not available until later in the year, necessitating amended 1099 forms and amended tax forms, or at best late adjusted tax records.  Many clubs miss making these adjustments.

In the world of cost basis reporting this then causes a problem,  sometimes many years later when you sell a stock. If you've been doing DRIP or "Folio" investing,  it can take a lot to untangle to be able to match 1099 capital gains reporting when you have a sale.

REIT's by law are supposed to pass through all of their capital gains.  If, for some reason, after they close their books,  they haven't done this, they may later revise their distribution information and issue a form 2439 requiring more complicated accounting adjustments at some point later in the year.  Fortunately this happens rarely but it does happen.

So REIT's add a layer of complication to club accounting that we recommend you stay away from if you want to keep things simple. 
I have experience with many many treasurers working through the end of year adjustments who tell me they are going to tell their clubs to "Sell the REIT asap" and not buy any more in the future.
Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends!
www.bivio.com

Become our Facebook friend!  www.facebook.com/bivio
Follow us on twitter!  www.twitter.com/bivio
Follow Us on Google+

Click here to Subscribe to the Club Cafe email list.  Click here to  Unsubscribe


On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Linda <wiltse@optonline.net> wrote:
Not without additional info manually entered.


Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S(R)4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Deep Shikha <dshikha@stkate.edu>
Date:07/23/2015 6:06 PM (GMT-05:00)
Cc:
Subject: [club_cafe] Inv. question

I am sure it has been discussed before, but I was wondering if bivio software can handle REIT investments.

Deep Shikha


Can't remember your password? Do you need a strong and secure password? Use Password manager! It stores your passwords & protects your account.


REIT ETF's will probably bring with them the same issues as REIT's. Under the description of distributions for VNQ, I found the following information from Vanguard:

VNQ Distribution Disclaimer

You'll note that they not only point out that the "dividends" received during the year are later reclassified (which causes the extra work in your club accounting), they also point out the effect this has on yield.

Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends!
www.bivio.com

Become our Facebook friend! www.facebook.com/bivio
Follow us on twitter! www.twitter.com/bivio
Follow Us on Google+

Click here to Subscribe to the Club Cafe email list. Click here to Unsubscribe



On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 5:47 PM, John Rice <rice.j1969@att.net> wrote:
REITs are fine if you invest them in your personal account. For an investment club it is highly discourage due to the additional complexity of preparing taxes for the club.

John



On Monday, July 27, 2015 1:52 PM, raka maka <rakamaka@inbox.com> wrote:


What are thoughts about REIT ETF like VNQ or IYR?
i buy and sell those in individual account without any complications.


-----Original Message-----
From: laurie@bivio.biz
Sent: Thu, 23 Jul 2015 18:20:59 -0400
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Inv. question

To keep your club record keeping as simple as possible, we recommend that you don't invest in REIT's in your club.

The reason we caution against REIT's is because they bring along with them a lot of extra work and complications for club treasurers.

If you search our site for REIT, you will find many discussions about the issues they bring.

Basically, their distributions get reclassified after the end of the year into 3 or 4 different categories. You won't know what those are until you get your 1099 and they will require manual adjustments to each dividend entry that was made during the year.

REIT's have to close out their own tax years before they can determine the dividend reclassification amounts. This means, at best that you will get the information on your 1099 forms but will have to wait at least until the middle of February (if not later at places like Folio), to get it. It is sometimes also available on the REIT websites, but in my experience, most clubs don't really understand how to get or use it and trying to help them do so overwhelms many.

Some REIT"s however don't have a calendar based tax year. That means that correct information is not available until later in the year, necessitating amended 1099 forms and amended tax forms, or at best late adjusted tax records. Many clubs miss making these adjustments.

In the world of cost basis reporting this then causes a problem, sometimes many years later when you sell a stock. If you've been doing DRIP or "Folio" investing, it can take a lot to untangle to be able to match 1099 capital gains reporting when you have a sale.

REIT's by law are supposed to pass through all of their capital gains. If, for some reason, after they close their books, they haven't done this, they may later revise their distribution information and issue a form 2439 requiring more complicated accounting adjustments at some point later in the year. Fortunately this happens rarely but it does happen.

So REIT's add a layer of complication to club accounting that we recommend you stay away from if you want to keep things simple.
I have experience with many many treasurers working through the end of year adjustments who tell me they are going to tell their clubs to "Sell the REIT asap" and not buy any more in the future.
Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends!
www.bivio.com

Become our Facebook friend! www.facebook.com/bivio
Follow us on twitter! www.twitter.com/bivio
Follow Us on Google+

Click here to Subscribe to the Club Cafe email list. Click here to Unsubscribe


On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 6:12 PM, Linda <wiltse@optonline.net> wrote:
Not without additional info manually entered.


Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S(R)4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Deep Shikha <dshikha@stkate.edu>
Date:07/23/2015 6:06 PM (GMT-05:00)
Cc:
Subject: [club_cafe] Inv. question

I am sure it has been discussed before, but I was wondering if bivio software can handle REIT investments.

Deep Shikha


Can't remember your password? Do you need a strong and secure password? Use Password manager! It stores your passwords & protects your account.