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-------- Original message --------
From: Deep Shikha <dshikha@stkate.edu>
Date:07/23/2015 6:06 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Cc:
Subject: [club_cafe] Inv. question
I am sure it has been discussed before, but I was wondering if bivio software can handle REIT investments.
Deep Shikha
Laurie Frederiksen on
To keep your club record keeping as simple as possible, we recommend that you don't invest in REIT's in your club.
The reason we caution against REIT's is because they bring along with
them a lot of extra work and complications for club treasurers.
If you search our site for REIT, you will find many discussions about the issues they bring.
Basically, their distributions get reclassified after the end of the
year into 3 or 4 different categories. You won't know what those are
until you get your 1099 and they will require manual adjustments to each
dividend entry that was made during the year.
REIT's have to close out their own tax years before they can determine
the dividend reclassification amounts. This means, at best that you
will get the information on your 1099 forms but will have to wait at
least until the middle of February (if not later at places like Folio),
to get it. It is sometimes also available on the REIT websites, but in
my experience, most clubs don't really understand how to get or use it
and trying to help them do so overwhelms many.
Some REIT"s however don't have a calendar based tax year. That means
that correct information is not available until later in the year,
necessitating amended 1099 forms and amended tax forms, or at best late
adjusted tax records. Many clubs miss making these adjustments.
In the world of cost basis reporting this then causes a problem,
sometimes many years later when you sell a stock. If you've been doing
DRIP or "Folio" investing, it can take a lot to untangle to be able to
match 1099 capital gains reporting when you have a sale.
REIT's by law are supposed to pass through all of their capital gains.
If, for some reason, after they close their books, they haven't done
this, they may later revise their distribution information and issue a
form 2439 requiring more complicated accounting adjustments at some
point later in the year. Fortunately this happens rarely but it does
happen.
So REIT's add a layer of complication to club accounting that we
recommend you stay away from if you want to keep things simple.
I have
experience with many many treasurers working through the end of year
adjustments who tell me they are going to tell their clubs to "Sell the
REIT asap" and not buy any more in the future.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
To keep your club record keeping as simple as possible, we recommend that you don't invest in REIT's in your club.
The reason we caution against REIT's is because they bring along with
them a lot of extra work and complications for club treasurers.
If you search our site for REIT, you will find many discussions about the issues they bring.
Basically, their distributions get reclassified after the end of the
year into 3 or 4 different categories. You won't know what those are
until you get your 1099 and they will require manual adjustments to each
dividend entry that was made during the year.
REIT's have to close out their own tax years before they can determine
the dividend reclassification amounts. This means, at best that you
will get the information on your 1099 forms but will have to wait at
least until the middle of February (if not later at places like Folio),
to get it. It is sometimes also available on the REIT websites, but in
my experience, most clubs don't really understand how to get or use it
and trying to help them do so overwhelms many.
Some REIT"s however don't have a calendar based tax year. That means
that correct information is not available until later in the year,
necessitating amended 1099 forms and amended tax forms, or at best late
adjusted tax records. Many clubs miss making these adjustments.
In the world of cost basis reporting this then causes a problem,
sometimes many years later when you sell a stock. If you've been doing
DRIP or "Folio" investing, it can take a lot to untangle to be able to
match 1099 capital gains reporting when you have a sale.
REIT's by law are supposed to pass through all of their capital gains.
If, for some reason, after they close their books, they haven't done
this, they may later revise their distribution information and issue a
form 2439 requiring more complicated accounting adjustments at some
point later in the year. Fortunately this happens rarely but it does
happen.
So REIT's add a layer of complication to club accounting that we
recommend you stay away from if you want to keep things simple.
I have
experience with many many treasurers working through the end of year
adjustments who tell me they are going to tell their clubs to "Sell the
REIT asap" and not buy any more in the future.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
I am sure it has been discussed before, but I was wondering if bivio software can handle REIT investments.
Deep Shikha
John Rice on
REITs are fine if you invest them in your personal account. For an investment club it is highly discourage due to the additional complexity of preparing taxes for the club.
John
On Monday, July 27, 2015 1:52 PM, raka maka <rakamaka@inbox.com> wrote:
What are thoughts about REIT ETF like VNQ or IYR?
i buy and sell those in individual account without any complications.
To keep your club record keeping as simple as possible, we recommend that you don't invest in REIT's in your club.
The reason we caution against REIT's is because they bring along with
them a lot of extra work and complications for club treasurers.
If you search our site for REIT, you will find many discussions about the issues they bring.
Basically, their distributions get reclassified after the end of the
year into 3 or 4 different categories. You won't know what those are
until you get your 1099 and they will require manual adjustments to each
dividend entry that was made during the year.
REIT's have to close out their own tax years before they can determine
the dividend reclassification amounts. This means, at best that you
will get the information on your 1099 forms but will have to wait at
least until the middle of February (if not later at places like Folio),
to get it. It is sometimes also available on the REIT websites, but in
my experience, most clubs don't really understand how to get or use it
and trying to help them do so overwhelms many.
Some REIT"s however don't have a calendar based tax year. That means
that correct information is not available until later in the year,
necessitating amended 1099 forms and amended tax forms, or at best late
adjusted tax records. Many clubs miss making these adjustments.
In the world of cost basis reporting this then causes a problem,
sometimes many years later when you sell a stock. If you've been doing
DRIP or "Folio" investing, it can take a lot to untangle to be able to
match 1099 capital gains reporting when you have a sale.
REIT's by law are supposed to pass through all of their capital gains.
If, for some reason, after they close their books, they haven't done
this, they may later revise their distribution information and issue a
form 2439 requiring more complicated accounting adjustments at some
point later in the year. Fortunately this happens rarely but it does
happen.
So REIT's add a layer of complication to club accounting that we
recommend you stay away from if you want to keep things simple.
I have
experience with many many treasurers working through the end of year
adjustments who tell me they are going to tell their clubs to "Sell the
REIT asap" and not buy any more in the future.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
I am sure it has been discussed before, but I was wondering if bivio software can handle REIT investments.
Deep Shikha
Laurie Frederiksen on
REIT ETF's will probably bring with them the same issues as REIT's. Under the description of distributions for VNQ, I found the following information from Vanguard:
You'll note that they not only point out that the "dividends" received during the year are later reclassified (which causes the extra work in your club accounting), they also point out the effect this has on yield.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
REITs are fine if you invest them in your personal account. For an investment club it is highly discourage due to the additional complexity of preparing taxes for the club.
To keep your club record keeping as simple as possible, we recommend that you don't invest in REIT's in your club.
The reason we caution against REIT's is because they bring along with
them a lot of extra work and complications for club treasurers.
If you search our site for REIT, you will find many discussions about the issues they bring.
Basically, their distributions get reclassified after the end of the
year into 3 or 4 different categories. You won't know what those are
until you get your 1099 and they will require manual adjustments to each
dividend entry that was made during the year.
REIT's have to close out their own tax years before they can determine
the dividend reclassification amounts. This means, at best that you
will get the information on your 1099 forms but will have to wait at
least until the middle of February (if not later at places like Folio),
to get it. It is sometimes also available on the REIT websites, but in
my experience, most clubs don't really understand how to get or use it
and trying to help them do so overwhelms many.
Some REIT"s however don't have a calendar based tax year. That means
that correct information is not available until later in the year,
necessitating amended 1099 forms and amended tax forms, or at best late
adjusted tax records. Many clubs miss making these adjustments.
In the world of cost basis reporting this then causes a problem,
sometimes many years later when you sell a stock. If you've been doing
DRIP or "Folio" investing, it can take a lot to untangle to be able to
match 1099 capital gains reporting when you have a sale.
REIT's by law are supposed to pass through all of their capital gains.
If, for some reason, after they close their books, they haven't done
this, they may later revise their distribution information and issue a
form 2439 requiring more complicated accounting adjustments at some
point later in the year. Fortunately this happens rarely but it does
happen.
So REIT's add a layer of complication to club accounting that we
recommend you stay away from if you want to keep things simple.
I have
experience with many many treasurers working through the end of year
adjustments who tell me they are going to tell their clubs to "Sell the
REIT asap" and not buy any more in the future.
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com