Withdrawals
We have over 50 members so the tax returns run a few hundred pages with all the k-1's. Cost to print for paper and ink plus mailing costs for the returns adds to around $100. I suggest a fee of from 5 to 15 dollars for withdrawals depending on the # of members. We hand deliver k1's or ask for a SSAE from members.
Linda
Sent via the Samsung GALAXY S(R)4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Irina Clements
Date:06/24/2014 6:22 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
I am the treasurer for my club. We only take the fees charged by others.
I am uncertain where the high >$100 cost comes from.
For the federal and state return, packages included in membership. I pdf each members' k-1 and email to them. I register return receipt federal and state taxes total $22 or so. Paying for envelope as well.
I do the taxes and coordinate the audit.
With the exception of a few broker fees since we generally transfer stock... Not much.
I guess the asst treasurer and I could also add mileage. Which we have not done. We have charged for notary when we had to get something notarized.
I concur wholeheartedly having "% incentives" to dis incentivize folks from frequently departing, but >$100, don't see it.
Irina Clements
Treasurer Streetbeaters investment club
Be Well. Irina Sent from my iPad
There are costs associated with withdrawals that no one seems to be taking into account. A tax return needs to be printed and mailed, as well as K1's distributed. The withdrawing partner should share some of those expenses by paying a small withdrawal fee depending on the # of members. The expense can add up to $100 or more for a club. When a club disbands, there are some states that require a fee to end the partnership. If the treasurer paid everyone off at full value, who would end up paying these final expenses?I would be interested to know how clubs handle the year of dissolution.LindaSent via the Samsung GALAXY S(R)4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
Linda,
With more than 50 members you have large costs for preparing and delivering tax forms.
If one member withdraws in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.
If that member does not withdraw in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.
For the club, the difference in cost to prepare tax returns between having any number of withdrawals and having no withdrawals is exactly $0.00.
What would the "5 to 15 dollars" be for? The cost of preparing and delivering one withdrawal report is less than one dollar.
Ed Berners, Treasurer
St. Joseph Valley Investors Club
From: wiltse <wiltse@optonline.net>
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
We have over 50 members so the tax returns run a few hundred pages with all the k-1's. Cost to print for paper and ink plus mailing costs for the returns adds to around $100. I suggest a fee of from 5 to 15 dollars for withdrawals depending on the # of members. We hand deliver k1's or ask for a SSAE from members.Linda
It is NOT the cost of preparing the withdrawal, it is the cost of the return itself. $100 divided by 50 members would be $2.00 per member, for example. The withdrawing member should share in that cost, hence the $5 fee. Each club would need to figure their own cost. Each withdrawal spits out more paper.
Linda
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Edgar Berners
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:42 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
Linda,
With more than 50 members you have large costs for preparing and delivering tax forms.
If one member withdraws in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.
If that member does not withdraw in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.
For the club, the difference in cost to prepare tax returns between having any number of withdrawals and having no withdrawals is exactly $0.00.
What would the "5 to 15 dollars" be for? The cost of preparing and delivering one withdrawal report is less than one dollar.
Ed Berners, Treasurer
St. Joseph Valley Investors Club
From: wiltse <wiltse@optonline.net>
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] WithdrawalsWe have over 50 members so the tax returns run a few hundred pages with all the k-1's. Cost to print for paper and ink plus mailing costs for the returns adds to around $100. I suggest a fee of from 5 to 15 dollars for withdrawals depending on the # of members. We hand deliver k1's or ask for a SSAE from members.
Linda
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Over 50 members wow. My comeback would be split that club into three clubs each of 15 - 20 members. Where do you meet an auditorium? Do all the members contribute their efforts [time, meaningful analysis, not just money]. My two clubs are each much smaller.[ under 15 people and under 10 people respectively.] I would posit that your club is on the edge or over the definition of a mutual fund.... just my $0.02
On Tuesday, June 24, 2014
11:09 PM, Linda <wiltse@optonline.net> wrote:
It is NOT the cost of preparing the withdrawal, it is the cost of the return itself. $100 divided by 50 members would be $2.00 per member, for example. The withdrawing member should share in that cost, hence the $5 fee. Each club would need to figure their own cost. Each withdrawal spits out more paper.
Linda
From: club_cafe@bivio.com
[mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Edgar Berners
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:42 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:42 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
Linda,
With more than 50 members you have large costs for preparing and delivering tax forms.
If one member withdraws in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.
If that member does not withdraw in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.
For the club, the difference in cost to prepare tax returns between having any
number of withdrawals and having no withdrawals is exactly $0.00.
What would the "5 to 15 dollars" be for? The cost of preparing and delivering one withdrawal report is less than one dollar.
Ed Berners, Treasurer
St. Joseph Valley Investors Club
From: wiltse <wiltse@optonline.net>
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] WithdrawalsWe have over 50 members so the tax returns run a few hundred pages with all the k-1's. Cost to print for paper and ink plus mailing costs for the returns adds to around $100. I suggest a fee of from 5 to 15 dollars for withdrawals depending on the # of members. We hand deliver k1's or ask for a SSAE from members.Linda
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On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 7:51 AM, IRINA CLEMENTS <irina39@verizon.net> wrote:
Over 50 members wow. My comeback would be split that club into three clubs each of 15 - 20 members. Where do you meet an auditorium? Do all the members contribute their efforts [time, meaningful analysis, not just money]. My two clubs are each much smaller.[ under 15 people and under 10 people respectively.] I would posit that your club is on the edge or over the definition of a mutual fund.... just my $0.02
They're not even close to the definition of a mutual fund.A mutual fund is a specific investment structure which is quite different from a general partnership..
What you are thinking of is the SEC registration and regulation exemption for "private investment companies" with fewer than 100 investors. With more than 100 members, a club *may* be subject to SEC regulation if it can't meet the other requirements for an exemption.
Ira Smilovitz
On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 11:09 PM, Linda <wiltse@optonline.net> wrote:
It is NOT the cost of preparing the withdrawal, it is the cost of the return itself. $100 divided by 50 members would be $2.00 per member, for example. The withdrawing member should share in that cost, hence the $5 fee. Each club would need to figure their own cost. Each withdrawal spits out more paper.LindaFrom: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Edgar Berners
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:42 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] WithdrawalsLinda,With more than 50 members you have large costs for preparing and delivering tax forms.If one member withdraws in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.If that member does not withdraw in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.For the club, the difference in cost to prepare tax returns between having any number of withdrawals and having no withdrawals is exactly $0.00.What would the "5 to 15 dollars" be for? The cost of preparing and delivering one withdrawal report is less than one dollar.Ed Berners, TreasurerSt. Joseph Valley Investors ClubFrom: wiltse <wiltse@optonline.net>
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] WithdrawalsWe have over 50 members so the tax returns run a few hundred pages with all the k-1's. Cost to print for paper and ink plus mailing costs for the returns adds to around $100. I suggest a fee of from 5 to 15 dollars for withdrawals depending on the # of members. We hand deliver k1's or ask for a SSAE from members.Linda
Linda,
I understand now that when a member withdraws his tax return is prepared in the following year when he is long gone and so he does not share in that expense. I would agree with a fee to cover his share of the tax returns, the withdrawal report, and any cost for
paying his account.
Ed Berners
From: Linda <wiltse@optonline.net>
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 11:08 PM
Subject: RE: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
It is NOT the cost of preparing the withdrawal, it is the cost of the return itself. $100 divided by 50 members would be $2.00 per member, for example. The withdrawing member should share in that cost, hence the $5 fee. Each club would need to figure their own cost. Each withdrawal spits out more paper.LindaFrom: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Edgar Berners
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:42 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] WithdrawalsLinda,With more than 50 members you have large costs for preparing and delivering tax forms.If one member withdraws in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.If that member does not withdraw in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.For the club, the difference in cost to prepare tax returns between having any number of withdrawals and having no withdrawals is exactly $0.00.What would the "5 to 15 dollars" be for? The cost of preparing and delivering one withdrawal report is less than one dollar.Ed Berners, TreasurerSt. Joseph Valley Investors ClubFrom: wiltse <wiltse@optonline.net>
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] WithdrawalsWe have over 50 members so the tax returns run a few hundred pages with all the k-1's. Cost to print for paper and ink plus mailing costs for the returns adds to around $100. I suggest a fee of from 5 to 15 dollars for withdrawals depending on the # of members. We hand deliver k1's or ask for a SSAE from members.Linda
Since the withdrawing member is no longer part of the partnership, s/he is also not part of the subsequent tax return so should not be expected to share in the cost of its preparation. The only additional cost generated is the creation of the withdrawal report.
Mike Jones
Wall$treet Wannabees
Bloomington, MN
From: Linda <wiltse@optonline.net>
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:08 PM
Subject: RE: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
It is NOT the cost of preparing the withdrawal, it is the cost of the return itself. $100 divided by 50 members would be $2.00 per member, for example. The withdrawing member should share in that cost, hence the $5 fee. Each club would need to figure their own cost. Each withdrawal spits out more paper.
Linda
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Edgar Berners
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:42 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:42 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
Linda,
With more than 50 members you have large costs for preparing and delivering tax forms.
If one member withdraws in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.
If that member does not withdraw in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.
For the club, the difference in cost to prepare
tax returns between having any number of withdrawals and having no withdrawals is exactly $0.00.
What would the "5 to 15 dollars" be for? The cost of preparing and delivering one withdrawal report is less than one dollar.
Ed Berners, Treasurer
St. Joseph Valley Investors Club
From: wiltse <wiltse@optonline.net>
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] WithdrawalsWe have over 50 members so the tax returns run a few hundred pages with all the k-1's. Cost to print for paper and ink plus mailing costs for the returns adds to around $100. I suggest a fee of from 5 to 15 dollars for withdrawals depending on the # of members. We hand deliver k1's or ask for a SSAE from members.Linda
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I respectfully disagree with this assertion. The withdrawing member was a part of the club for the year the return is filed. If we have a member leaving in 2013, the K-1 and supporting documents must be filed in 2014 for the withdrawing member as well as everyone else. I know the IRS requires this, so in this case the forms filed are just part of the process of withdrawing from the club.
Tim Hoyman
Treasurer, Colorado Leprechauns
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Mike Jones via bivio.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 8:45 AM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
Since the withdrawing member is no longer part of the partnership, s/he is also not part of the subsequent tax return so should not be expected to share in the cost of its preparation. The only additional cost generated is the creation of the withdrawal report.
Mike Jones
Wall$treet Wannabees
Bloomington, MN
From: Linda <wiltse@optonline.net>
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:08 PM
Subject: RE: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
It is NOT the cost of preparing the withdrawal, it is the cost of the return itself. $100 divided by 50 members would be $2.00 per member, for example. The withdrawing member should share in that cost, hence the $5 fee. Each club would need to figure their own cost. Each withdrawal spits out more paper.
Linda
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Edgar Berners
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:42 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
Linda,
With more than 50 members you have large costs for preparing and delivering tax forms.
If one member withdraws in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.
If that member does not withdraw in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.
For the club, the difference in cost to prepare tax returns between having any number of withdrawals and having no withdrawals is exactly $0.00.
What would the "5 to 15 dollars" be for? The cost of preparing and delivering one withdrawal report is less than one dollar.
Ed Berners, Treasurer
St. Joseph Valley Investors Club
From: wiltse <wiltse@optonline.net>
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
We have over 50 members so the tax returns run a few hundred pages with all the k-1's. Cost to print for paper and ink plus mailing costs for the returns adds to around $100. I suggest a fee of from 5 to 15 dollars for withdrawals depending on the # of members. We hand deliver k1's or ask for a SSAE from members.
Linda
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I agree the club is too large, but we have one member, our former president, who loves to invest the money and he keeps getting more and more members. I argue to no avail. Most do not participate or do any research. It is more a social thing to meet others in our community. For some it is an easy way for them to invest on a monthly basis.
Linda
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of ira smilovitz
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 9:34 AM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 7:51 AM, IRINA CLEMENTS <irina39@verizon.net> wrote:
Over 50 members wow. My comeback would be split that club into three clubs each of 15 - 20 members. Where do you meet an auditorium? Do all the members contribute their efforts [time, meaningful analysis, not just money]. My two clubs are each much smaller.[ under 15 people and under 10 people respectively.] I would posit that your club is on the edge or over the definition of a mutual fund.... just my $0.02
They're not even close to the definition of a mutual fund.A mutual fund is a specific investment structure which is quite different from a general partnership..
What you are thinking of is the SEC registration and regulation exemption for "private investment companies" with fewer than 100 investors. With more than 100 members, a club *may* be subject to SEC regulation if it can't meet the other requirements for an exemption.
Ira Smilovitz
On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 11:09 PM, Linda <wiltse@optonline.net> wrote:
It is NOT the cost of preparing the withdrawal, it is the cost of the return itself. $100 divided by 50 members would be $2.00 per member, for example. The withdrawing member should share in that cost, hence the $5 fee. Each club would need to figure their own cost. Each withdrawal spits out more paper.
Linda
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Edgar Berners
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:42 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
Linda,
With more than 50 members you have large costs for preparing and delivering tax forms.
If one member withdraws in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.
If that member does not withdraw in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.
For the club, the difference in cost to prepare tax returns between having any number of withdrawals and having no withdrawals is exactly $0.00.
What would the "5 to 15 dollars" be for? The cost of preparing and delivering one withdrawal report is less than one dollar.
Ed Berners, Treasurer
St. Joseph Valley Investors Club
From: wiltse <wiltse@optonline.net>
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
We have over 50 members so the tax returns run a few hundred pages with all the k-1's. Cost to print for paper and ink plus mailing costs for the returns adds to around $100. I suggest a fee of from 5 to 15 dollars for withdrawals depending on the # of members. We hand deliver k1's or ask for a SSAE from members.
Linda
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If a person withdraws in 2014, they will receive a 2014 K-1 in 2015, so they should pay a fee for the tax return.
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Mike Jones via bivio.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2014 10:45 AM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
Since the withdrawing member is no longer part of the partnership, s/he is also not part of the subsequent tax return so should not be expected to share in the cost of its preparation. The only additional cost generated is the creation of the withdrawal report.
Mike Jones
Wall$treet Wannabees
Bloomington, MN
From: Linda <wiltse@optonline.net>
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:08 PM
Subject: RE: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
It is NOT the cost of preparing the withdrawal, it is the cost of the return itself. $100 divided by 50 members would be $2.00 per member, for example. The withdrawing member should share in that cost, hence the $5 fee. Each club would need to figure their own cost. Each withdrawal spits out more paper.
Linda
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of Edgar Berners
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:42 PM
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
Linda,
With more than 50 members you have large costs for preparing and delivering tax forms.
If one member withdraws in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.
If that member does not withdraw in 2014, then in 2015 you will prepare and deliver tax returns including K-1s for all who were members at any time in 2014.
For the club, the difference in cost to prepare tax returns between having any number of withdrawals and having no withdrawals is exactly $0.00.
What would the "5 to 15 dollars" be for? The cost of preparing and delivering one withdrawal report is less than one dollar.
Ed Berners, Treasurer
St. Joseph Valley Investors Club
From: wiltse <wiltse@optonline.net>
To: club_cafe@bivio.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 10:12 PM
Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Withdrawals
We have over 50 members so the tax returns run a few hundred pages with all the k-1's. Cost to print for paper and ink plus mailing costs for the returns adds to around $100. I suggest a fee of from 5 to 15 dollars for withdrawals depending on the # of members. We hand deliver k1's or ask for a SSAE from members.
Linda
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<< If a person withdraws in 2014, they will receive a 2014 K-1 in 2015, so they should pay a fee for the tax return.>>
Well, yes, agreed, but since we are only talking about the cost of providing a k1 to the IRS and, possibly, a hard copy for the club, in your own words, the additional cost will be t to 2 dollars. I would be inclined to wish them well, and speed them on their way.
Rip west
I must agree with Rip. You do not pay extra for the tax return in bivio, you can send it and a second copy of the withdrawal report by email or the withdrawing partner can access it and print it him/herself.
Joe Farrell
Joe Farrell
<< If a person withdraws in 2014, they will receive a 2014 K-1 in 2015, so they should pay a fee for the tax return.>>
Well, yes, agreed, but since we are only talking about the cost of providing a k1 to the IRS and, possibly, a hard copy for the club, in your own words, the additional cost will be t to 2 dollars. I would be inclined to wish them well, and speed them on their way.
Rip west