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Apple Valuation You may be. Our SSG projects 10% growth (probably a lot less than AAPL will
achieve), uses the average of the lowest 5 of 10 PE ratios (rather than the
average of the last 5), and TTM EPS of 35.11. We have a buy up to slightly more
than $600.
How do you arrive at a hold?
Ira Smilovitz
In a message dated 3/6/2012 11:24:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ejmoosa@yahoo.com writes:
I find it interesting to see Apple being held by more clubs I have a p/e of 21 using an earnings estimate of $50 in five years, which is slightly higher than your earnings growth rate. During the years 2007-2011 the P/E has been trending downward. Even as their earnings have accelerated, the P/E has been contracting. What will drive it to a higher P/E in the future, especially since everyone that has wanted to own Apple probably already has it? I've attached a PDF of my SSG. Feel free to critique it.
Hi Mr. Chastain, Great analysis. I agree with your premise of AAPL being a stock still headed upwards. At the end of your post you said, "The stock price took a hit, but then recovered and soared. That is the way with AAPL (and actually most of my stocks). To me, those are buying opportunities." I am just curious as to which other companies you own or would recommend. I'm looking for a couple of good companies that are in a position where buying on dips is smart. Thanks, L. Dale Caldwell
Thanks for the thoughtful feedback Roy. Yes I do use Valueline's earnings estimates and projected high price as a guiding influence. By doing so, I am attempting to remove some of my own emotional judgement from the equation. I do attempt to affirm or deny that these numbers are plausible as I do the SSG however. On the P/E side of the equation, I examine both the high and low P/Es over the last five years to understand the trend. I feel that the expansion or contraction directions indicate changes in psychology of investors and how they feel about the stock. On the final premise, I'll pose the following question: What are the potential new "purchasers" of Apple stock waiting on? The news has been great, the numbers great, the outlook great. So what event will need to occur for them to buy? Once again, thanks for the effort you put into your reply. Nice to be at a site where your head is not bitten off for having an opinion that is somewhat contrarian. EJ
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 7:14 PM, Roy Chastain wrote: > There are tons of people sitting on the fence. Why? I recently saw the > phrase that AAPL has been “penalized by the law of large numbers.” There is something real here. Simon Lack talks about this concept In The Hedge Fund Mirage, which is a very good book, btw. With hedge funds, the problem of scale is very real. With product or service companies, the issue is slightly different. Apple is very good. I mean Apple is AWESOME. I was in an Apple store this week in Boulder. The store is less than 10K sq ft, and had 25 blue-shirted staff in it. I can walk in pretty much any time of the day, and there are more customers than that. And, this is in Boulder, where the other stores are virtually empty. Apple grosses $14B in its physical stores. That's $5.6K/sq ft. The closest store to that is Tiffany at $3K/sq ft. Costco grosses $81B, but only gets $1K/sq ft. However impressive that is, what's more impressive is that Apple's physical store sales went up by 50% over the prior year 2010(?). Here's the chart which was quoted all over the place on 8/24/11: http://www.macrumors.com/2011/08/24/apple-tops-u-s-retail-chains-in-sales-per-square-foot/ Even if it only did half as good as Tiffany, that would still be incredible, since most of its revenue is generated elsewhere. In other words, it is by far the most successful bricks and mortar retailer in the US, and that's not even its main business model. This growth has happened in an incredibly bad economy. > There also has been a lot of discussion I think that says it all: discussion. People are baffled by Apple's success. I remember sitting at a table many years ago and saying, "While Apple is very successful, I have to question the concept that you think it is going to go up by 10x". It was unthinkable, but that's exactly "the problem" with Apple: its success has been completely unimaginable. You can't just sit there and say, "It'll go up by 10x" today, but there's about a 50% chance you'd be wrong. It's very important to realize that Apple is not monopoly, like Microsoft and Google. Indeed, they are just the opposite. They are just like Tiffany: they sell exclusive items at a huge premium. They still have a small share of the PC and phone markets. They do have a 60% share of the tablet market, but essentially, Apple created that market. While Android is growing, Apple is, too, because Apple reinvented the smart phone market. > While these > doubters probably will never buy AAPL, their doubts influence others who > might buy. I don't think anybody is affecting Apple's growth except Apple. Even Steve Jobs' s death didn't put a dent in their growth. If any one event would affect people's future impressions of Apple, that would be it, and probably, it increased the growth, because of the two major books and countless memorials to The Great Man. Despite the fears, Jobs managed his own exit quite well. As with all Apple news, it was mixed with selected rumors and announcements. Tim Cook is looking pretty strong as CEO. This surprised me as much as anything else in Apple's history. They turned Jobs's death into a marketing coup. > p.s. I still rely in large part on Value Line, but I am somewhat troubled > in that some of VL’s analysts give conflicting information. Thus, I use I think VL's analysts are humans, and in fact, bureaucrats. They have to churn out analyses at too great a rate, and they don't have skin in the game. Follow the money. Who of the big investors is buying Apple, and why, or why not? There are some pretty big numbers attached to pretty big names in this list: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=AAPL+Major+Holders You won't find me in that list. ;-) I don't own AAPL except indirectly through SPY. I'm not an active investor except in my own companies. I just find their success fascinating. I use a lot of their products so I tend to keep abreast of their "goings on". What will happen in 10 years is anybody's guess, but I'm pretty sure they aren't going away in the next 5, and look for a great new innovation in the new few years. Cheers, Rob Roy, Ø ...There also has been a lot of discussion that sitting on such a huge amount of cash is bad for the company. (Huh??) I view the discussion a bit differently. As Warren Buffet says so well, the job of management is to allocate the company resources where needed. So, if they have an adequate reserve for future needs, if they do not see either an expansion of the business assets, or an acquisition, why shouldn't the company distribute that to shareholders? Buffett makes it clear that Berkshire Hathaway may find new opportunities for the cash as investments. The only answer Steve Jobs ever gave for the cash hoard was that this kept Apple strong. The recent discussions are truly a test leadership and a quest to understand the direction Tim Cook will take with the company. Maybe Al Gore, as a member of the Apple Board of Directors, can invent the Internet again so Apple can invest. ;-) Mark Eckman
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