Because this is a fiduciary issue within a legal business entity, it's probably going to be a civil matter. The police would recommend you contact an attorney and find a remedy through the courts.
There's a public company that used to be called Pre-Paid Legal. It's now called LegalShield. You can sign up online for $17 per month and get an array of legal services, including unlimited advice by phone, I believe there's a $30 or $50 one-time sign up fee, and they take the $17 on a monthly basis from a credit card. I use them for my business. I just pay the $204 once a year.
I use them to walk me through several types of issues - real estate transactions, proper wording of business or personal letters, contract reviews, and information about legalities within my state. The membership usually pays for itself every year. They also send letters for me, if the situation calls for it. Those letters can be pretty intimidating with 17 partners' names running down the margin of their letterhead. That might be a less-expensive way to go to get this resolved. The other member could help defray the sign up fee. Just an idea. http://www.legalshield.com/
This is a good string of emails. I serve as the treasurer of our group. We've been around for over 15 years and when we started, I did everything manually (including all withdrawals and taxes). Yikes. Things are so much better with the computer now, but I think it's important to remember that while we serve in a voluntary capacity (usually) we are legally obligated as partners in our organization. While I feel a good sense of trust with our members, I would like to know how other clubs do the "checks and balances" of the treasurer's job. I would love someone to take a look at my work quarterly or even yearly but everyone is busy and just says, "it's ok, we know you're honest". I would love to find another Bivio club in my area that would like to trade books every now and again for a double check. Is that a crazy idea?
Because this is a fiduciary issue within a legal business entity, it's probably going to be a civil matter. The police would recommend you contact an attorney and find a remedy through the courts.
There's a public company that used to be called Pre-Paid Legal. It's now called LegalShield. You can sign up online for $17 per month and get an array of legal services, including unlimited advice by phone, I believe there's a $30 or $50 one-time sign up fee, and they take the $17 on a monthly basis from a credit card. I use them for my business. I just pay the $204 once a year.
I use them to walk me through several types of issues - real estate transactions, proper wording of business or personal letters, contract reviews, and information about legalities within my state. The membership usually pays for itself every year. They also send letters for me, if the situation calls for it. Those letters can be pretty intimidating with 17 partners' names running down the margin of their letterhead. That might be a less-expensive way to go to get this resolved. The other member could help defray the sign up fee. Just an idea. http://www.legalshield.com/
You make a very good point. We advocate that clubs do an annual audit for just the reasons you have specified. We hold Audit party weekend webinars in January every year and we provide you with an easy to use check list to work through the process.
One of the reasons for this audit is that knowing your partnership records are accurate is the responsibility of everyone in the partnership, not just the treasurer.
If you request that members participate in such a review and they don't want to, they certainly wouldn't have any recourse if there is a problem.
Having your funds invested in a partnership is something every member should want to know is being tracked correctly. I'm sure not very many people would give their funds to a bank and never check that the bank was tracking them correctly.
I think in a situation where a club member was not aware for 3 years that funds were not being deposited that were given to a treasurer will not just be an issue of whether the treasurer did the job correctly, but whether the member acted responsibly in continuing to participate in the club. There is some responsibility on the members side to make timely determinations that their assets are being accounted for correctly. Each member should also want to know that taxes are being prepared and filed correctly. If there are tax issues, all members will be responsible for any fines and for getting them resolved. Not just the club treasurer.
It is far more fun and easy to hold a party on an afternoon in January, work through the audit checklist together to do a double check on things and then celebrate!
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
Interesting discussion. Our club has been together since 1986. We have bought the Fidelity bond for a number of years when our group was large and we didn't know everyone very well. however no longer do that as we are much smaller in size and know everyone fairly well. We definitely have a formal audit following Bivio's and BI's outlined audit forms usually in Feb or March just before we do the taxes. The audit is done by two members of the club and a report is presented to the club at the next meeting. We have never had a problem.
This is a good string of emails. I serve as the treasurer of our group. We've been around for over 15 years and when we started, I did everything manually (including all withdrawals and taxes). Yikes. Things are so much better with the computer now, but I think it's important to remember that while we serve in a voluntary capacity (usually) we are legally obligated as partners in our organization. While I feel a good sense of trust with our members, I would like to know how other clubs do the "checks and balances" of the treasurer's job. I would love someone to take a look at my work quarterly or even yearly but everyone is busy and just says, "it's ok, we know you're honest". I would love to find another Bivio club in my area that would like to trade books every now and again for a double check. Is that a crazy idea?
Because this is a fiduciary issue within a legal business entity, it's probably going to be a civil matter. The police would recommend you contact an attorney and find a remedy through the courts.
There's a public company that used to be called Pre-Paid Legal. It's now called LegalShield. You can sign up online for $17 per month and get an array of legal services, including unlimited advice by phone, I believe there's a $30 or $50 one-time sign up fee, and they take the $17 on a monthly basis from a credit card. I use them for my business. I just pay the $204 once a year.
I use them to walk me through several types of issues - real estate transactions, proper wording of business or personal letters, contract reviews, and information about legalities within my state. The membership usually pays for itself every year. They also send letters for me, if the situation calls for it. Those letters can be pretty intimidating with 17 partners' names running down the margin of their letterhead. That might be a less-expensive way to go to get this resolved. The other member could help defray the sign up fee. Just an idea. http://www.legalshield.com/
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Laurie Frederiksen <laurie@bivio.biz> wrote:
Dear Kimberly,
You make a very good point. We advocate that clubs do an annual audit for just the reasons you have specified. We hold Audit party weekend webinars in January every year and we provide you with an easy to use check list to work through the process.
One of the reasons for this audit is that knowing your partnership records are accurate is the responsibility of everyone in the partnership, not just the treasurer.
If you request that members participate in such a review and they don't want to, they certainly wouldn't have any recourse if there is a problem.
Having your funds invested in a partnership is something every member should want to know is being tracked correctly. I'm sure not very many people would give their funds to a bank and never check that the bank was tracking them correctly.
I think in a situation where a club member was not aware for 3 years that funds were not being deposited that were given to a treasurer will not just be an issue of whether the treasurer did the job correctly, but whether the member acted responsibly in continuing to participate in the club. There is some responsibility on the members side to make timely determinations that their assets are being accounted for correctly. Each member should also want to know that taxes are being prepared and filed correctly. If there are tax issues, all members will be responsible for any fines and for getting them resolved. Not just the club treasurer.
It is far more fun and easy to hold a party on an afternoon in January, work through the audit checklist together to do a double check on things and then celebrate!
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
Our club holds a quarterly audit (which helps speed up the annual audit). It's done by 3 club members (each one takes one month) and we've not had any problems. Bivio makes it quite easy. The idea of exchanging information with another club is interesting and would perhaps benefit both clubs.
From: club_cafe@bivio.com [mailto:club_cafe@bivio.com] On Behalf Of chriswhite925@gmail.com Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 8:48 AM To: club_cafe@bivio.com Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Investment club withdrawals
Interesting discussion. Our club has been together since 1986. We have bought the Fidelity bond for a number of years when our group was large and we didn't know everyone very well. however no longer do that as we are much smaller in size and know everyone fairly well. We definitely have a formal audit following Bivio's and BI's outlined audit forms usually in Feb or March just before we do the taxes. The audit is done by two members of the club and a report is presented to the club at the next meeting. We have never had a problem.
This is a good string of emails. I serve as the treasurer of our group. We've been around for over 15 years and when we started, I did everything manually (including all withdrawals and taxes). Yikes. Things are so much better with the computer now, but I think it's important to remember that while we serve in a voluntary capacity (usually) we are legally obligated as partners in our organization. While I feel a good sense of trust with our members, I would like to know how other clubs do the "checks and balances" of the treasurer's job. I would love someone to take a look at my work quarterly or even yearly but everyone is busy and just says, "it's ok, we know you're honest". I would love to find another Bivio club in my area that would like to trade books every now and again for a double check. Is that a crazy idea?
Because this is a fiduciary issue within a legal business entity, it's probably going to be a civil matter. The police would recommend you contact an attorney and find a remedy through the courts.
There's a public company that used to be called Pre-Paid Legal. It's now called LegalShield. You can sign up online for $17 per month and get an array of legal services, including unlimited advice by phone, I believe there's a $30 or $50 one-time sign up fee, and they take the $17 on a monthly basis from a credit card. I use them for my business. I just pay the $204 once a year.
I use them to walk me through several types of issues - real estate transactions, proper wording of business or personal letters, contract reviews, and information about legalities within my state. The membership usually pays for itself every year. They also send letters for me, if the situation calls for it. Those letters can be pretty intimidating with 17 partners' names running down the margin of their letterhead. That might be a less-expensive way to go to get this resolved. The other member could help defray the sign up fee. Just an idea. http://www.legalshield.com/
To "cover my butt" I find the easiest way to keep the books clean is to balance to the penny every month. We have 2 brokerage accounts and one bank account. Since we only have a couple of transactions per month, it takes me about 5 minutes to make sure the ending cash balances match the bivio valuation statement. Then I don't have to worry about going back 6 or 9 months to repair an error.
Next, I invite 2 members to come over at tax time. I give one the bank statements and checkbook register and the other a bivio broker transaction print out and the broker statements. I run through the deposits myself, just to make sure everything was properly posted. After we are done checking off the numbers, we all sign off on each one, and I run the tax forms while they assemble them. Then I pull out a big pitcher of margaritas. I used to serve drinks "during" the assembly, but...you guess it! We messed them up. Now we wait until the bitter end! <g>
This event ensures that I am not solely responsible for any errors. It takes about 20-30 minutes to audit, 45-60 with assembly. I also recommend sending state and federal forms certified mail. Better safe than LATE.
P.S. I wouldn't trust ANYONE outside my club with my books. Just make it a party. You'll do fine.
Lynn O.
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 10:23 AM, Kimberly Hazen <hazenfree@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a good string of emails. I serve as the treasurer of our group. We've been around for over 15 years and when we started, I did everything manually (including all withdrawals and taxes). Yikes. Things are so much better with the computer now, but I think it's important to remember that while we serve in a voluntary capacity (usually) we are legally obligated as partners in our organization. While I feel a good sense of trust with our members, I would like to know how other clubs do the "checks and balances" of the treasurer's job. I would love someone to take a look at my work quarterly or even yearly but everyone is busy and just says, "it's ok, we know you're honest". I would love to find another Bivio club in my area that would like to trade books every now and again for a double check. Is that a crazy idea?
Linda Lee on
Kimberly,
If you can't wait, you can find the audit presentation in the bivio library
http://www.bivio.com/hn/library-FAQ.html
The presentation has almost all the words spoken by Laurie.
From: Kimberly Hazen <hazenfree@gmail.com> To: club_cafe@bivio.com Sent: Friday, November 9, 2012 9:11 AM Subject: Re: [club_cafe] Investment club withdrawals
Excellent! I'll keep an eye out for the webinar.
On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Laurie Frederiksen <laurie@bivio.biz> wrote:
Dear Kimberly,
You make a very good point. We advocate that clubs do an annual audit for just the reasons you have specified. We hold Audit party weekend webinars in January every year and we provide you with an easy to use check list to work through the process.
One of the reasons for this audit is that knowing your partnership records are accurate is the responsibility of everyone in the partnership, not just the treasurer.
If you request that members participate in such a review and they don't want to, they certainly wouldn't have any recourse if there is a problem.
Having your funds invested in a partnership is something every member should want to know is being tracked correctly. I'm sure not very many people would give their funds to a bank and never check that the bank was tracking them correctly.
I think in a situation where a club member was not aware for 3 years that funds were not being deposited that were given to a treasurer will not just be an issue of whether the treasurer did the job correctly, but whether the member acted responsibly in continuing to participate in the club. There is some responsibility on the members side to make timely determinations that their assets are being accounted for correctly. Each member should also want to know that taxes are being prepared and filed correctly. If there are tax issues, all members will be responsible for any fines and for getting them resolved. Not just the club treasurer.
It is far more fun and easy to hold a party on an afternoon in January, work through the audit checklist together to do a double check on things and then celebrate!
Laurie Frederiksen Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com