I haven’t studied COH and certainly don’t want to imply that it’s the same situation, but on January 3, Family Dollar (FDO) released an earnings report that
missed consensus and the price tanked (closed at $64.04 on the 2nd and $55.74 on the 3rd). During the day on the 3rd, when the stock was at $55.64, I sold a Jan 55 PUT for $.90. By the 15th (12 days later and 4
days before option expiration), the PUT was well out of the money and I bought it back for $.05. The overall APR was 44% (including commissions). I do think there are opportunities to capitalize on overreactions to earnings reports, but on the other hand,
it’s definitely not a “sure thing.”
--Ron
From: cool_club@bivio.com [mailto:cool_club@bivio.com]
On Behalf Of Laurie Frederiksen Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 7:50 AM To: COOL_Club@bivio.com Subject: [cool_club] COH Earnings
So Coach missed earnings and is down big time after hours.
Anybody going to take a look at it to see whether this is one of those "overreactions" to earnings that the Cool Club Dude talked about?
Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
First I have been monitoring COH for quite some time and concluded
based upon fundamentals COH to be a good buy at $50 or below. The
disappointing earnings report today that dramatically drove down
the stock price seemed to focus on US sales being weak and alluded
to Sandy being a contributor. I have long viewed the growth in
Coach would be coming from the merging markets and especially
China. I also view Coach to be well managed and believe they will
be able to overcome the competitive pressures they are currently
facing. So I remain a bull on COH despite the huge sell off today.
So with the view I would be happy to own COH at $50 I today sold 2
COH March 52.50 Put Options at $2.95. This resulted in a an APR
of 40 and cash of $581.44.
I do recognize this deviates somewhat from Paul's teachings to
sell puts OTM, but since if this Put is assigned I would be buying
COH at $49.59 that I would be happy to do. If not I collect $581
and I am still happy.
This raises a question for Paul perhaps we can discuss tonight in
the Cool Club. In this case I have the cash in my account to cover
this put option say about $10500. But in discussions with my
broker (TDA) and since this is a margin account, I could have
executed this trade with no cash in my account. I questioned him
on this and he verified this to be accurate. If and when the Put
was assigned I would then be charged margin interest. Paul often
mentions the premiums being like money market interest for
uninvested cash. But if I had no cash in this account and if the
put was not assigned it would seem like I am obtaining the $581
with no investment or seemingly an infinite return. This does not
seem possible. What am I missing?
Dan
On 1/23/2013 8:49 AM, Laurie Frederiksen wrote:
So Coach missed earnings and is down big time after
hours.
Anybody going to take a look at it to see whether this is one of
those "overreactions" to earnings that the Cool Club Dude talked
about?
Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
My understanding of this is that you are using the margin account as the financing vehicle for the trade. This is, in part, why selling naked puts is such a risky endeavor. So, again, if I am understanding it correctly, had you not had any cash in your account you would have used margin for the assignment and then you would be charged margin interest because you were, in essence, borrowing that money. Maybe I am missing something. I am curious what other thoughts are out there.
Andy
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 11:42 AM, Dan Hess <danhess@nc.rr.com> wrote:
Laurie
I did and decided to sell some COH Put Options.
First I have been monitoring COH for quite some time and concluded
based upon fundamentals COH to be a good buy at $50 or below. The
disappointing earnings report today that dramatically drove down
the stock price seemed to focus on US sales being weak and alluded
to Sandy being a contributor. I have long viewed the growth in
Coach would be coming from the merging markets and especially
China. I also view Coach to be well managed and believe they will
be able to overcome the competitive pressures they are currently
facing. So I remain a bull on COH despite the huge sell off today.
So with the view I would be happy to own COH at $50 I today sold 2
COH March 52.50 Put Options at $2.95. This resulted in a an APR
of 40 and cash of $581.44.
I do recognize this deviates somewhat from Paul's teachings to
sell puts OTM, but since if this Put is assigned I would be buying
COH at $49.59 that I would be happy to do. If not I collect $581
and I am still happy.
This raises a question for Paul perhaps we can discuss tonight in
the Cool Club. In this case I have the cash in my account to cover
this put option say about $10500. But in discussions with my
broker (TDA) and since this is a margin account, I could have
executed this trade with no cash in my account. I questioned him
on this and he verified this to be accurate. If and when the Put
was assigned I would then be charged margin interest. Paul often
mentions the premiums being like money market interest for
uninvested cash. But if I had no cash in this account and if the
put was not assigned it would seem like I am obtaining the $581
with no investment or seemingly an infinite return. This does not
seem possible. What am I missing?
Dan
On 1/23/2013 8:49 AM, Laurie Frederiksen wrote:
So Coach missed earnings and is down big time after
hours.
Anybody going to take a look at it to see whether this is one of
those "overreactions" to earnings that the Cool Club Dude talked
about?
Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com
I would have thought that may be the case but it does not seem to
be. I just again checked with my broker and he told me margin
interest would only be charged once the Put was assigned to cover
the cost of buying the stock if it were put to me.
The broker rational seems to be that selling a put option does not
result in any expense (ignoring the premium) of borrowing money to
the broker until the Put is assigned. Think of it this way, from
my viewpoint I am not borrowing any money until such time as the
put option is assigned and thus why should I owe and margin
interest?
Thus this seems to me to be a way of obtaining free money via the
premium without incurring any risk unless the assignment occurs.
I know there is no free lunch and anything that seems to be too
good to be true is generally not but I am unable to understand
what may be the gimmick here. Of course you do have to have
enough other securities in the account to justify the amount of
margin that is allowed and if you exceeded this a margin call and
its consequences may occur as you suggest in your naked puts
reference.
Dan
On 1/23/2013 2:57 PM, Andy Butler wrote:
My understanding of this is that you are using the
margin account as the financing vehicle for the trade. This is,
in part, why selling naked puts is such a risky endeavor. So,
again, if I am understanding it correctly, had you not had any
cash in your account you would have used margin for the
assignment and then you would be charged margin interest because
you were, in essence, borrowing that money. Maybe I am missing
something. I am curious what other thoughts are out there.
Andy
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 11:42 AM, Dan
Hess <danhess@nc.rr.com>
wrote:
Laurie
I did and decided to sell some COH Put Options.
First I have been monitoring COH for quite some time and
concluded based upon fundamentals COH to be a good buy
at $50 or below. The disappointing earnings report today
that dramatically drove down the stock price seemed to
focus on US sales being weak and alluded to Sandy being
a contributor. I have long viewed the growth in Coach
would be coming from the merging markets and especially
China. I also view Coach to be well managed and believe
they will be able to overcome the competitive pressures
they are currently facing. So I remain a bull on COH
despite the huge sell off today.
So with the view I would be happy to own COH at $50 I
today sold 2 COH March 52.50 Put Options at $2.95. This
resulted in a an APR of 40 and cash of $581.44.
I do recognize this deviates somewhat from Paul's
teachings to sell puts OTM, but since if this Put is
assigned I would be buying COH at $49.59 that I would be
happy to do. If not I collect $581 and I am still happy.
This raises a question for Paul perhaps we can discuss
tonight in the Cool Club. In this case I have the cash
in my account to cover this put option say about
$10500. But in discussions with my broker (TDA) and
since this is a margin account, I could have executed
this trade with no cash in my account. I questioned him
on this and he verified this to be accurate. If and
when the Put was assigned I would then be charged margin
interest. Paul often mentions the premiums being like
money market interest for uninvested cash. But if I
had no cash in this account and if the put was not
assigned it would seem like I am obtaining the $581 with
no investment or seemingly an infinite return. This
does not seem possible. What am I missing?
Dan
On 1/23/2013 8:49 AM, Laurie Frederiksen wrote:
So Coach missed earnings and
is down big time after hours.
Anybody going to take a look at it to see whether
this is one of those "overreactions" to earnings
that the Cool Club Dude talked about?
Laurie Frederiksen
Invest with your friends! www.bivio.com